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Thread: Family members/ multiple working in separate areas of the same river at the same time

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    Default Family members/ multiple working in separate areas of the same river at the same time

    We are planning our summer dipnet season at Kasilof for the year, and a couple of things have come to attention. 1.) My girlfriend doesn't want to dipnet from my boat on the Kasilof. She just doesn't feel safe. 2.) Some (at least one) other families want to come down and dipnet with us (i.e. borrow our net). 3.) My girlfriend's dad (the third household permit) MAY come down and dipnet out of the boat with me.

    One version of our plan calls for me and my gf dad dipnetting in the boat (two household permit holders in the boat). My gf and her sister in law dipnetting from shore with 1-2 kids running fish from the netter up the beach to the other person cleaning and clipping fish.

    I'm not sure if this is legal. As we all know, each household has its own permit, and each fish caught must be recorded immediately upon being harvested. How can I record my harvest (as it happens) if my girlfriend has our permit with her on the beach? The reverse is also true if I have the permit in the boat. One solution I can think of is two way radios and the person on the beach recording the boat harvest as I call it in on the radio.

    Another solution involves combining the harvests, so to speak. If I and my girlfriend's dad have HIS permit on the boat, and we record all fish caught on the boat on his permit, and my girlfriend and her sister in law record all of the fish harvested on the beach on their two permits, then I think we are meeting the letter of the law. As long as the total of fish harvested does not exceed the maximum combined limit of all three permits, AND no one household goes home with more fish than is allowed on their assigned permits, that should met the spirit of the law.

    Lastly, my girlfriend's dad is eligible to do a proxy fish permit, and I could be his proxy, but how am I his proxy if he is in the boat with me?

    Any thoughts on any of this? I REALLY do not want to dipnet from the beach and my girlfriend REALLY does not want to dipnet from the boat. I think the kids involved would rather be on the beach as well, just for getting to handle the fish more and play in the low tide mud.

  2. #2

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    Others may know more details, but here is my thought at first glance.

    I don't think the "combining the harvests" plan would work. If I recall correctly, each family member must be listed on the permit and you can't have someone who is not under that permit netting fish for it. This means that you would not be able to net fish on your girlfriends dad's permit. Now, he could net from your boat to fill his permit, but you couldn't help out. I don't think you can proxy for someone else why they are also fishing (at least I know that is the case regarding hunting, only one can participate at any specific time).

    It may just simply be that you can't split up so much the way you want to. Maybe take shifts, dip from the boat for a while while those on the beach take a break, then swap out, they dip for a while and you take a break? I know there have been questions brought up on the forums here regarding splitting up and how to deal with it but can't recall the details about the final legal determination, if one was made at all.

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    I'm so glad I get all the fish my household needs with a flyrod.......
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    You can't be a proxy if you are able to get your own fish. A proxy is more or less a disabled or unable person who can not fish or hunt themselves. ( I think you need a note from your doctor to qualify to be a proxy? )
    "Grin and Bear It"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tearbear View Post
    You can't be a proxy if you are able to get your own fish. A proxy is more or less a disabled or unable person who can not fish or hunt themselves. ( I think you need a note from your doctor to qualify to be a proxy? )
    Excellent point.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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  6. #6

    Default Permit has to be in your possession

    You've got two households and two permits. Permit and license has to be in your possession while fishing. If you're fishing two permits from the boat, both have to be in your possession.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tearbear View Post
    You can't be a proxy if you are able to get your own fish. A proxy is more or less a disabled or unable person who can not fish or hunt themselves. ( I think you need a note from your doctor to qualify to be a proxy? )
    Is that where the term "double dipping" comes from!?
    I just couldn't resist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tearbear View Post
    You can't be a proxy if you are able to get your own fish. A proxy is more or less a disabled or unable person who can not fish or hunt themselves. ( I think you need a note from your doctor to qualify to be a proxy? )
    I'm not sure if I worded that quite right...but the general idea is you can't fish or hunt for someone on a proxy unless that person you are fishing or hunting for is disabled or unable to do it themselves, and you would need a statement from an Alaskan licensed doctor to do so.
    "Grin and Bear It"

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    Member Tearbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agp View Post
    Is that where the term "double dipping" comes from!?
    I just couldn't resist.
    Sounds about right to me!
    "Grin and Bear It"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tearbear View Post
    I'm not sure if I worded that quite right...but the general idea is you can't fish or hunt for someone on a proxy unless that person you are fishing or hunting for is disabled or unable to do it themselves, and you would need a statement from an Alaskan licensed doctor to do so.
    That's not quite correct. Many people qualify for a proxy simply by their age. For hunting, anyone 65 years old or older can proxy their permits (when proxy is legal) to other hunters. Being physically disabled or otherwise unable to hunt is not the sole requirement for a proxy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    That's not quite correct. Many people qualify for a proxy simply by their age. For hunting, anyone 65 years old or older can proxy their permits (when proxy is legal) to other hunters. Being physically disabled or otherwise unable to hunt is not the sole requirement for a proxy.
    Guess those would be in the 'unable' category. Still need the doctors note, I believe.
    "Grin and Bear It"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tearbear View Post
    Guess those would be in the 'unable' category. Still need the doctors note, I believe.
    Nope, no note or anything needed. Just have to be 65 or older. Described on page 12 of the regs.

    When I got the information to proxy for my mom, I spent some time talking to the F&G guys about it. Pretty much, we just had to be sure that only one of us was hunting at any specific time. If I was acting as her proxy, I had to have her hunting license with me along with her permit (thus she could not hunt at the same time since she would not have her license or permit on her). If she was hunting, she would have both of those and I could not hunt for her since she had them and I didn't. Nothing about being able or unable to hunt. No doctor's note. Just the age.

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    Member Tearbear's Avatar
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    Thanks for the age info on being a beneficiary for a proxy anchskier, as I always understood that you needed a note from the doctor.

    So the proxy could dipnet for his girlfriends Dad if he is over 65, or with a note from the doctor regardless of age, doesn't matter if he is in the boat or not...
    "Grin and Bear It"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tearbear View Post
    Thanks for the age info on being a beneficiary for a proxy anchskier, as I always understood you needed a note from the doctor.

    So the proxy could dipnet for his girlfriends Dad if he is over 65, or with a note from the doctor regardless of age, doesn't matter if he is in the boat or not...
    I'm not sure if there are differences in how the proxy system works for fishing, and there may be even more differences when you get into subsistence activities like dipnetting. I am just familiar with how they are applied for hunting. If it is the same as hunting, then he could proxy for him only if the dad was not also fishing/dipping at the same time. They couldn't both be working to fill the one person's limit concurrently.

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    Well as usual...the best thing to do would be to call F&G since they 'should' know the rules better than us.
    "Grin and Bear It"

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    Trade girl friend in for new model... Pretty simple
    Do I give my friends advice? Jesus, no. They wouldn't take advice from me. Nobody should take advice from me. I haven't got a clue about anything..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tearbear View Post
    So the proxy could dipnet for his girlfriends Dad if he is over 65, or with a note from the doctor regardless of age, doesn't matter if he is in the boat or not...
    Right...I knew that part, but not the other half...that the proxy grantor had to stay home. I SHOULD have known that as it makes the most sense. So the work around is my girlfriend nets from shore while I proxy net for her dad fro the boat, but that leaves me to operate the boat AND dipnet (AND handle fish) all at the same time, single-handed. Sounds to me like a recipe for an accident of some sorts, either a boat collision, laceration, fall overboard, or all of the above. That also doesn't accommodate the third household permit-the sister in law with no net. (Which, for me, is the least of my concerns.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    Right...I knew that part, but not the other half...that the proxy grantor had to stay home. I SHOULD have known that as it makes the most sense. So the work around is my girlfriend nets from shore while I proxy net for her dad fro the boat, but that leaves me to operate the boat AND dipnet (AND handle fish) all at the same time, single-handed. Sounds to me like a recipe for an accident of some sorts, either a boat collision, laceration, fall overboard, or all of the above. That also doesn't accommodate the third household permit-the sister in law with no net. (Which, for me, is the least of my concerns.)
    I may be mistaken, but is this your first year dipnetting?

    You really seem to be stretching yourself fairly thin, and it sounds like more stress than fun from here. No offense intended, but have you considered the reality of what you'll be dealing with if this plan works? That is a LOT of fish to process, and as spread out as you all may be (shore and boat) keeping tabs on who has how many feesh is going to be difficult.

    If this is your first year, it might be advisable to take a more minimalist approach and test the waters as it where before you face the potential of getting inundated with work/too many fish, and worst of all, ticked off women.

    My earlier comment was meant to point out that the possibility of spending your time catching sockeye with a rod, away from the crowds, is quite an attractive alternative to the masses of asses one encounters in the dipnet fishery.

    Either way it works out for you, good luck.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    I may be mistaken, but is this your first year dipnetting?

    You really seem to be stretching yourself fairly thin, and it sounds like more stress than fun from here. No offense intended, but have you considered the reality of what you'll be dealing with if this plan works? That is a LOT of fish to process, and as spread out as you all may be (shore and boat) keeping tabs on who has how many feesh is going to be difficult.

    If this is your first year, it might be advisable to take a more minimalist approach and test the waters as it where before you face the potential of getting inundated with work/too many fish, and worst of all, ticked off women.

    My earlier comment was meant to point out that the possibility of spending your time catching sockeye with a rod, away from the crowds, is quite an attractive alternative to the masses of asses one encounters in the dipnet fishery.

    Either way it works out for you, good luck.
    It's my second year. Last year was our "minimal approach" year. We took like 10 fish over two separate trips. (So kinda struck out.) Yeah, if we max our permit, we'll have a LOT of work on our hands-especially if we also proxy fish-dirty, slimy, smelly, work. But I see it from another point of view. I don't work full time at a real job, and haven't for many years, this is probably the best, if not only, way I have of contributing, so I hope I get completely swamped with work. (Which is kind of the point of this discussion: to figure out the best way to maximize the efficiency of our efforts; who knew those pesky "rules" were going to get in the way lol.

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    Best way to maximize the efficiency would be to work together. If your lady wants to net from shore and you want to net from a boat, you've split your team.

    10 fish in 2 trips? Ouch. That sure makes those some spendy filets. Again, good luck.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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