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Thread: Jet Impeller/Sleeve set up?

  1. #1
    Member akhounddog's Avatar
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    Default Jet Impeller/Sleeve set up?

    So I took my boat in to have the annual maintenance conducted on my outboard (65hp yamaha). Today I recived the dreaded call that my shaft is bent. It was bent bad enough that there was "some difficulty" pulling the impeller off, but not so bad that I had no idea when it happened. The boat ran fine to my knowledge when I winterized it last year. The tech said it could have happened by sucking up a rock and "tweeking" the shaft. I do not doubt this theory at all. What I find suspect is for 5 years I ran an aluminum sleeve and stainless steel impeller and never had any issue. This time last year I made the switch to a poly lined sleeve(?) and a aluminum impeller. Sucking up rocks on the river is nothing new it happens several times every year. This is the only thing I can come up with. I have heard you shouldn't run a SS sleeve and a SS impeller together, but have no experiance with this set up.

    1. Do you guys think this was something freak that can happen with any set up?
    2. Do you think the combo of poly sleeve and aluminum impeller is inadequate?
    3. Is aluminum sleeve and SS impeller the preferred set up.

    All that being said I usually run the boat by myself, not a lot of weight, and have didn't notice any performance differences when I made the changes.

  2. #2
    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    The poly sleeve and aluminum set up will offer you the most protection. You have give in everything. I run ss in the inboard with aluminum sleeve. I have hear performance gains with the ss sleeve but I like the give factor.
    I think this is a freak deal, could of been a hard stick
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  3. #3
    Member akhounddog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabliss View Post
    The poly sleeve and aluminum set up will offer you the most protection. You have give in everything. I run ss in the inboard with aluminum sleeve. I have hear performance gains with the ss sleeve but I like the give factor.
    I think this is a freak deal, could of been a hard stick
    The Irony in this made me laugh. These were my original thoughts as well. not to mention the initial cost savings compaired to SS impeller. Thanks for you input.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by akhounddog View Post
    So I took my boat in to have the annual maintenance conducted on my outboard (65hp yamaha). Today I recived the dreaded call that my shaft is bent. It was bent bad enough that there was "some difficulty" pulling the impeller off, but not so bad that I had no idea when it happened. The boat ran fine to my knowledge when I winterized it last year. The tech said it could have happened by sucking up a rock and "tweeking" the shaft. I do not doubt this theory at all. What I find suspect is for 5 years I ran an aluminum sleeve and stainless steel impeller and never had any issue. This time last year I made the switch to a poly lined sleeve(?) and a aluminum impeller. Sucking up rocks on the river is nothing new it happens several times every year. This is the only thing I can come up with. I have heard you shouldn't run a SS sleeve and a SS impeller together, but have no experiance with this set up.

    1. Do you guys think this was something freak that can happen with any set up?
    2. Do you think the combo of poly sleeve and aluminum impeller is inadequate?
    3. Is aluminum sleeve and SS impeller the preferred set up.

    All that being said I usually run the boat by myself, not a lot of weight, and have didn't notice any performance differences when I made the changes.
    Just some question's

    How can your shaft be bent enough to make it so hard to get your impeller off and your impeller not eat your liner when it's running? How did it get bent so bad and you have no idea when it happened? How did a rock big enough to bend your stainless shaft get thru your grate and you not know it? The last question for now how did a rock small enough to fit between your liner and impeller ( 0.030 ) bend your stainless shaft? The question's that came to mind when I read your post. Glen

  5. #5
    Premium Member bmunsell's Avatar
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    Now I'm not saying you don't have a bent shaft, but when I ran an outboard jet, the impeller was usually stuck on the shaft when ever I went to take it apart. Even with the 3 stage inboard jet I have now the impellers are stuck on the shaft when I go to take it apart. The reason my stuff was and is stuck has nothing to do with bent shafts but is due to the super fine silt we have in the rivers around here. It works its way into everything and acts like super glue. The trick that I was taught by River Boat Ron was to get my dead blow hammer or stick or even a rock and start tapping on stuff until it jarred loose. You start banging and the impellers seems like they are welded on but pretty soon they start vibrating a little and then they loosen up and off they come. If you try to use a puller of some kind, it takes a tremendous amount of force to get the impellers to move and in the end I suspect its actually the banging around of the puller and wrenches that does the trick.

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    Member Yukoner's Avatar
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    I'm calling BS on their diagnosis.
    How could a bent shaft cause issues for removing the impeller on an OBJ pump? To get it off, you need to pull the foot and liner, then there is no restriction to pull it.
    The threaded portion of the shat that the nut threads onto is a smaller OD, so it would have to be bent way over to prohibit removal. And how could the shaft have gotten bent inside the impeller itself? That cold lock it on, but bending the impeller itself?
    The forces need to bend that shaft would result in a broken intake foot or bowl at the very least.
    I think it was just seized as munsell said.
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    I agree with the others, a bent shaft is going to cause serious wear on the the impeller and wear ring, and probably contact that will be felt and heard if the impeller is shimmed to the proper tolerances. I've seen my impellers seriously stuck to the shaft before and had to pry them off with no bent shaft. Seized impellers are common, my dad had an old jet that my brother and I couldn't force the impeller off of. We're thinking of heating it up or cutting the impeller off the shaft it is so seized.

  8. #8

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    [QUOTE=fishslayer;1389314]I agree with the others, a bent shaft is going to cause serious wear on the the impeller and wear ring, and probably contact that will be felt and heard if the impeller is shimmed to the proper tolerances. I've seen my impellers seriously stuck to the shaft before and had to pry them off with no bent shaft. Seized impellers are common, my dad had an old jet that my brother and I couldn't force the impeller off of. We're thinking of heating it up or cutting the impeller off the shaft it is so seized





    Heat up the core of the impeller till you melt the plastic sleeve between the impeller and the shaft. The impeller should slide off. You will need a new plastic sleeve. Glen

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    Member akhounddog's Avatar
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    So I may have misunderstood the mechanical issues regardign the shaft. what I can add to is that there was difficulty removing the foot/sleeve/impeller assembly from the motor, and there was damage to the sleeve. The replacement of the shaft is a moot point, its all ready being done. I have requested to keep the shaft so I can inspect it and have it straightened for a later use if needed. Again the main topic was for your input on the what type of sleeve and impeller to run. Thanks again

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by akhounddog View Post
    So I may have misunderstood the mechanical issues regardign the shaft. what I can add to is that there was difficulty removing the foot/sleeve/impeller assembly from the motor, and there was damage to the sleeve. The replacement of the shaft is a moot point, its all ready being done. I have requested to keep the shaft so I can inspect it and have it straightened for a later use if needed. Again the main topic was for your input on the what type of sleeve and impeller to run. Thanks again
    Hope I didn't sound like I was throwing rock's. It's just very hard to bent a shaft in a O.B. jet. I don't remember the last time I heard of one. IMO stainless impeller's are not a problem with outboard jet shaft's. If so you would see lot's of bent shaft's as most large H.P. Outboard jet's have stainless impellers. Glad your's is all fixed. Glen

  11. #11

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    It may be a moot point now, but I think the message from experienced outboard jet operators here is that you may be getting a shaft replacement that was unwarranted. Boating is costly enough without having to fork out money to replace things that are not broke.

    Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by akhounddog View Post
    So I may have misunderstood the mechanical issues regardign the shaft. what I can add to is that there was difficulty removing the foot/sleeve/impeller assembly from the motor, and there was damage to the sleeve. The replacement of the shaft is a moot point, its all ready being done. I have requested to keep the shaft so I can inspect it and have it straightened for a later use if needed. Again the main topic was for your input on the what type of sleeve and impeller to run. Thanks again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresent Hills View Post
    It may be a moot point now, but I think the message from experienced outboard jet operators here is that you may be getting a shaft replacement that was unwarranted. Boating is costly enough without having to fork out money to replace things that are not broke.

    Tom
    Cresent Hills
    Are you serious!!! With no other information your saying a shop rip off Akhounddog because a couple of guys say it very hard to bent a shaft that was replaced.

    Interesting...........

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    Member akhounddog's Avatar
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    Guys any work that I have done is done at Big Lake Power sports or Greatland welding. I have never been done wrong by either one of them thus why they will continue to get my busness. If you guys have been done wrong let me know, who do you recommend? I should have known I wouldnt be able to ask a question on this forum without the trolls coming out and telling me I was being taking to the cleaners. I think its funny that you assume Im a inexperienced outboard Jet operator, which by the looks of it none of the "experienced outboard jet operators" that have posted so far have had any experience with a bent shat. SO that would make you just as inexperienced as me. Again I just wanted to know the sleeve/impeller type combo that people have used. BUt hey thanks for the learning experiance. Next time I know to leave off my personal situation and just ask a vague question. On a side note the shaft has been verified 3party that it is bent, although Im sure that wont please the conspiracy theorists. You would naturally assume they must have bent it purposely.

  14. #14

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    I was serious and if you can't take our constructive advice or experience, I doubt you would listen to our input on the impeller sleeve combo..

    So I will not offer you any more personal input..

    As for MacGyvers coment... It appears he does not know who is commenting...

    Anything can happen But if Glen Wooldrige hasn't seen a bent shaft..... if must be pretty rare...

    As for Trolls... a member since 2008 with 19 posts.... Interesting akhounddog..

    Do as you wish.. you know more than us.

    Tom




    Quote Originally Posted by akhounddog View Post
    Guys any work that I have done is done at Big Lake Power sports or Greatland welding. I have never been done wrong by either one of them thus why they will continue to get my busness. If you guys have been done wrong let me know, who do you recommend? I should have known I wouldnt be able to ask a question on this forum without the trolls coming out and telling me I was being taking to the cleaners. I think its funny that you assume Im a inexperienced outboard Jet operator, which by the looks of it none of the "experienced outboard jet operators" that have posted so far have had any experience with a bent shat. SO that would make you just as inexperienced as me. Again I just wanted to know the sleeve/impeller type combo that people have used. BUt hey thanks for the learning experiance. Next time I know to leave off my personal situation and just ask a vague question. On a side note the shaft has been verified 3party that it is bent, although Im sure that wont please the conspiracy theorists. You would naturally assume they must have bent it purposely.

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    Member akhounddog's Avatar
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    Only wanted info on the sleeve/impeller, and yes 18 post. I can usually reseach old threads to find the info I need, this instance I couldnt. I dont have to have 1K post to read how people treat people here, thus why I usually dont. I would prefer to IM that way I dont have to deal with this BS. Not everybody on here trolled. I refer to the ones that were wearing blinders and disreguarded the essence of the questions and the topic to which no one has answered. Everybody is hung up on the shaft.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by akhounddog View Post
    Only wanted info on the sleeve/impeller, and yes 18 post. I can usually reseach old threads to find the info I need, this instance I couldnt. I dont have to have 1K post to read how people treat people here, thus why I usually dont. I would prefer to IM that way I dont have to deal with this BS. Not everybody on here trolled. I refer to the ones that were wearing blinders and disreguarded the essence of the questions and the topic to which no one has answered. Everybody is hung up on the shaft.
    Akhounddog sorry for the frustration, it was not my intent. The essence of the question to me was what bent the shaft. In post #4 I was responding to that and saying it would be hard to do. I said I didn't remember the last time I heard of one being bent I didn't say I haven't it's just been a very long time. You asked about different impeller set up's and you stated you were running a alum impeller. I don't think running a stainless would have made a differance. In post #10 I did say IMO stainless impeller's are not a problem with jet shaft's. All V6 outboard jet's and several other models have come standard with stainless impeller's for year's. It seam's like something is missing, I wish I knew the answer. I am glade it's fixed now, good luck. Glen

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    Member Jimw's Avatar
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    Stainless impeller and wear ring here got tired of replacing the aluminum.

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    Premium Member bmunsell's Avatar
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    I also was not trying put anybody down, just passing on lessons learned. The outboard jet I ran was a 100 hp 4 stroke yamaha and had an aluminum impeller when I bought it. Due to my inexperience the aluminum impeller didn't last very long so I went to a stainless impeller with the UHMW whatever plastic wear ring and that combination worked really well. It got a pretty good workout to. It didn't seem like in those days that I could make a run with out filling the jet foot full of gravel at least once. Then we would have to stop and take it all apart before we could go on.


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    When you get the shaft back, check the run out on it and let us know how much it was out.
    Out of curiosity, was the main bearing ok?
    The poly liners aren't very thick, and Aluminum isn't going to "give" enough to matter. A stone is going to wreck things if it manages to get in there, no matter what combo you run. Sucking rocks is pretty much par for the course, and as you said, it happens all the time. I always ran Al liners and SS impellers and never had any issues at all, with the exception being that SS took the abuse better.
    Poly intake foot seemed to me a great idea, but I think they aren't available any more(?)
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    Member akhounddog's Avatar
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    Thanks Gentlemen! Glen, no worries I appriciate and respect your input. From the sounds of it I really run no more risk using SS sleeve/impeller.
    @ yukoner, I was told the main bearing needed replaced along with some seals and o-rings. I'll be back in town in a couple days to see the shaft for my self, and I'll let you know. Thanks again guys.

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