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Thread: shipping a kicker on ak air cargo

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    Member fshgde's Avatar
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    Default shipping a kicker on ak air cargo

    Has anyone had recent experience shipping a kicker on ak air cargo I know it has to emptied of fuel and but getting run around on paperwork from them I am a known shipper but haven't ever shipped a motor Thanks for any info.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Legally when you sign the Declaration of Dangerous goods (hazmat form) you need to have a bunch of DOT/IATA specific training in shipping hazardous materials.

    The law also makes it clear that the Airlines cannot perform the task of completeing the paperwork for you. They can give you the blank form, but it is your shipment and you have to fill it out correctly. Every part of the form you mess up is a large fine you on. A few mistakes and you are into thousands of dollars in fines and years in jail if caught. The airlines may also not accept the form and your shipment.

    You need to look up "Engines, internal combustion (flammable liquid powered)" in either of the following: 49 CFR 172.101, the Hazardous Materials Table, or IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations, Section 4: Identification. The freight counter will have these books there and should allow you to use them to complete the form with all the little numbers and what not. You will need to know where all those little numbers from the table go on the form.

    You can also go to TGI Freight and pay them to process it all for you for a fee.

    That is as much help as I can legally offer.

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    Member AK Troutbum's Avatar
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    I shipped a snow machine, with tank full of fuel and a couple spare gallons of oil, through Everts Air Cargo a year or so ago. It all went to a little village in western Alaska. I did have to fill out the hazmat form, but they (folks behind the counter) walked me through it with all the approp. #'s in all the approp. places. It all took just a few minutes and shipped without incident. It's been several years since I've shipped any hazmat through NAC, so I don't know it there any different with paperwork these days. I've also shipped hazmat (no motors, just fuel) through ACE last year and the year before to Kodiak without any issues, just the standard paperwork. Just my experiences lately, don't know if it helps or not.

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    I believe you are going to have much difficulty shipping a used outboard on any commercial airline. Try to remember that AK Air does not operate a freight specific aircraft. Their "gold streak" cargo just goes on their passenger planes. Anything that once held fuel has to have been emptied and aired out for 30 days and here can be no fuel smell. Essentially, they won't take it if it's used.

    I shipped up a 4 hp from SEA (on the barge) but it was brand new.

    Are you trying to get an outboard to one of the major cities in AK, or are you trying to get it to one of the villages? If it's going to Anchorage or Fairbanks, it is probably possible to barge it up using Lynden or Carlisle.

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    I've shipped outboards back and forth from Dillingham to Anchorage. Just use one of the cargo outfits, it costs about $100 more than the straight weight charge, and they fill out all the paperwork.

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    We shipped a used outboard to Dillingham and back to Anchorage on Everts last year. All we had to do was drain the fuel, let it air out a couple of days, and run oil through the system. This is what we were told to do to avoid the hazmat paperwork. If AK airlines wont freight it that way you may look into Everts.

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    I ship hunting gear all the time for my outfitting service. I use NAC because they are reliable and cost the same as Lynden, ACE and Everetts. You will pay 1 one time Haz Mat fee of $25 per shipment so fill her up with bass, toss on a drum of gas and go wild.

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Alaska Airlines Air Cargo will not accept a used outboard. Send it through one of the cargo carriers. I've done that many times; it's not a huge deal.

    Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post
    Alaska Airlines Air Cargo will not accept a used outboard. Send it through one of the cargo carriers. I've done that many times; it's not a huge deal.

    Mike
    Holy cow really? I was just about to buy a used Honda from Seattle and have it AK Air Cargo'd up here. But I haven't checked with them yet. Thanks Mike!

    Nathan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobie2 View Post
    Holy cow really? I was just about to buy a used Honda from Seattle and have it AK Air Cargo'd up here. But I haven't checked with them yet. Thanks Mike!

    Nathan
    I've worked for them for almost 30 years and that's the latest I've heard. I don't work in cargo though, your best bet is to call the cargo office in Seattle. There's an outside chance it could go on the freighter. I doubt it, but you should check for yourself.

    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobie2 View Post
    Holy cow really? I was just about to buy a used Honda from Seattle and have it AK Air Cargo'd up here. But I haven't checked with them yet. Thanks Mike!

    Nathan
    Call up Lynden. They picked up my outboard at the dealer (I gave them the address) and out it on that day's sailing. $138. I picked it up 4 days later in Anchorage. They even loaded it into my truck for me.

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    TGI Freight (Across from NAC and Alaska Air Cargo) will do all the required hazmat paperwork for around $50 or so. They can than take it to NAC for you or you can go in yourself. I would use NAC as they are a freight only and don't have to worry about the complications that go with a freight and passenger service

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    Member fshgde's Avatar
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    thanks for the info going from Fairbanks to Kodiak for a bear hunt times didn't work for ferry so flying era cargo said they will do it and assist with paperwork

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post
    Alaska Airlines Air Cargo will not accept a used outboard. Send it through one of the cargo carriers. I've done that many times; it's not a huge deal.

    Mike
    I have a hard time believing this. Your thinking in checked baggage probably.

    AS accepts IATA regulations for
    Dangerous goods. As long as you follow those regs and fill out the proper paperwork, they will take it. There is nothing on their website about engines prohibited as cargo. The only
    Other place it might say if it is prohibited specifically is in the particular operator variations in IATA 2.8.(I couldn't find these with a quick search)

    Anyways. ....

    Here is what you have to do for Era or AS.


    Ship from your self to yourself up on the top on the form.

    Spell out both airports from and to.

    Xxxxx out cargo only aircraft so passenger and cargo A/C are still visible.

    Xxxx out radioactive

    UN no: UN 3166,

    proper shipping name: Internal combustion engine, liquid powered. Hazard Class: 9

    The quantity and packaging is: 1 boat motor X______KgG (put weight in where underlined in metric)

    Per IATA regulations and packing
    Instructions 950 ( on Alaska )

    Per 49 CFR or IATA regulations and packing instructions 950 on Era or AS

    You don't need a 24 hour emergency # on an engine but put your cel # in there anyway.

    Print your name and write owner after your name and then sign and date it

    Put it on a pallet and drop off. Make sure it is empty of fuel.

    Your need a label on the motor with: to, from, UN #, proper shipping name. And a hazard class 9 sticker (available at the cargo offices).

    Here is some Quick info on how to fill out the form.

    http://www.dhl-usa.com/content/dam/d...structions.pdf


    IATA Packing
    Instruction 950 info.
    http://www.icao.int/safety/Dangerous...P.050.2.en.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by dieNqvrs View Post
    I have a hard time believing this. Your thinking in checked baggage probably.

    AS accepts IATA regulations for
    Dangerous goods. As long as you follow those regs and fill out the proper paperwork, they will take it. There is nothing on their website about engines prohibited as cargo. The only
    Other place it might say if it is prohibited specifically is in the particular operator variations in IATA 2.8.(I couldn't find these with a quick search)

    Anyways. ....

    Here is what you have to do for Era or AS.


    Ship from your self to yourself up on the top on the form.

    Spell out both airports from and to.

    Xxxxx out cargo only aircraft so passenger and cargo A/C are still visible.

    Xxxx out radioactive

    UN no: UN 3166,

    proper shipping name: Internal combustion engine, liquid powered. Hazard Class: 9

    The quantity and packaging is: 1 boat motor X______KgG (put weight in where underlined in metric)

    Per IATA regulations and packing
    Instructions 950 ( on Alaska )

    Per 49 CFR or IATA regulations and packing instructions 950 on Era or AS

    You don't need a 24 hour emergency # on an engine but put your cel # in there anyway.

    Print your name and write owner after your name and then sign and date it

    Put it on a pallet and drop off. Make sure it is empty of fuel.

    Your need a label on the motor with: to, from, UN #, proper shipping name. And a hazard class 9 sticker (available at the cargo offices).

    Here is some Quick info on how to fill out the form.

    http://www.dhl-usa.com/content/dam/d...structions.pdf


    IATA Packing
    Instruction 950 info.
    http://www.icao.int/safety/Dangerous...P.050.2.en.pdf
    Good luck with that. (Has anyone ever successfully done that with a used outboard motor?)

  16. #16
    Member dieNqvrs's Avatar
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    Ravn/Era accepts both 49 CFR and IATA hazmat/dangerous goods in cargo shipments.

    Fill out the haz declaration form, make sure empty of fuel, and pay $20 hazmat fee and away it goes to its destination.

    To legitimately ship as non hazardous, regular cargo, it is virtually impossible. Era/Ravn considers all used engines -hazmat.

    You can't take much hazmat as checked baggage. But as cargo and declared it will go on same plane but under distinctly different regulations. Only hazmat allowed in checked baggage are the exceptions listed in 49 CFR, under exceptions to passengers and crew members.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    Good luck with that. (Has anyone ever successfully done that with a used outboard motor?)
    Back in the day I shipped "used" gas powered generators, I shipped "used" pickup trucks, I shipped "used" drill rigs on tracked vehicles, I have even shipped "used" excavators and dump trucks on C130's. Shipped all over the state on a variety of cargo aircraft. A used outboard would be childs play compared to some of the stuff I have put on a plane.

    The biggest issue facing a shipper is that the person at the counter my have just a handful more functioning brain cells than the average lap dog. There were many days I would take my item back, go to lunch, come back and deal with an older counter person. Never hit the freight counter during lunch time. There were some of the younger counter dudes that I was sure were functionally illiterate. How did AK Air promote them to being qualified to process hazmat is a mystery to me.

  18. #18
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieNqvrs View Post
    Ravn/Era accepts both 49 CFR and IATA hazmat/dangerous goods in cargo shipments.

    Fill out the haz declaration form, make sure empty of fuel, and pay $20 hazmat fee and away it goes to its destination.

    To legitimately ship as non hazardous, regular cargo, it is virtually impossible. Era/Ravn considers all used engines -hazmat.

    You can't take much hazmat as checked baggage. But as cargo and declared it will go on same plane but under distinctly different regulations. Only hazmat allowed in checked baggage are the exceptions listed in 49 CFR, under exceptions to passengers and crew members.
    I can't speak to what Era / Ravn does, and it's irrelevant anyway, as the OP was asking specifically about Alaska Airlines. I believe his shipment is coming from Seattle, which is way outside their route map anyway.

    Yes I am aware that AS accepts certain dangerous goods items as cargo for transport on passenger aircraft, and they accept certain dangerous goods for transport on cargo aircraft only. I am also aware that we USED to carry items which are now prohibited by company policy, regardless whether the a/c is a passenger or a cargo flight. For example, I loaded many a passenger vehicle on the topside of our 737-200 combo aircraft "back in the day", but those are now prohibited on all Alaska Airlines flights, regardless of the HAZMAT regulations. We DO carry snowmachines and ATVs on our freighters.

    I have it on good authority that we no longer accept, for transport on passenger or cargo-only aircraft, internal combustion engines (chainsaws, outboards, etc) that have been USED. I am unclear on whether we accept new ones anymore. I spoke to a 20-year veteran co-worker on the phone this evening and he was able to determine via an internal company document that we do not accept used motors. But I cannot find that document in the cargo section of our website. A similar document is found AT THIS LINK, but the internal document has a third column showing what is allowed / prohibited as cargo. The row discussing certain internal combustion engines suggests they are prohibited as cargo. At any rate, that's exactly why, for the last couple of decades, I have been shipping my outboards and chainsaws on cargo carriers exclusively. Some still accept them. For those interested, Northern Air Cargo's instructions are found AT THIS LINK.

    Clearly some are not comfortable taking my word for it, so my recommendation is to skip past all of us "experts" and simply call the cargo office during normal working hours. If you try to ship it anyway, or on the recommendation of someone on an Internet forum, and it turns out that the Company prohibits that item, you could be in deep weeds. VERIFY WITH THE CARRIER BEFORE YOU SHIP!!!

    And... all of this assumes that you are a Known Shipper... but that's another discussion for another day.

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
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    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
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  19. #19
    Member dieNqvrs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post
    I can't speak to what Era / Ravn does, and it's irrelevant anyway, as the OP was asking specifically about Alaska Airlines. I believe his shipment is coming from Seattle, which is way outside their route map anyway.

    Yes I am aware that AS accepts certain dangerous goods items as cargo for transport on passenger aircraft, and they accept certain dangerous goods for transport on cargo aircraft only. I am also aware that we USED to carry items which are now prohibited by company policy, regardless whether the a/c is a passenger or a cargo flight. For example, I loaded many a passenger vehicle on the topside of our 737-200 combo aircraft "back in the day", but those are now prohibited on all Alaska Airlines flights, regardless of the HAZMAT regulations. We DO carry snowmachines and ATVs on our freighters.

    I have it on good authority that we no longer accept, for transport on passenger or cargo-only aircraft, internal combustion engines (chainsaws, outboards, etc) that have been USED. I am unclear on whether we accept new ones anymore. I spoke to a 20-year veteran co-worker on the phone this evening and he was able to determine via an internal company document that we do not accept used motors. But I cannot find that document in the cargo section of our website. A similar document is found AT THIS LINK, but the internal document has a third column showing what is allowed / prohibited as cargo. The row discussing certain internal combustion engines suggests they are prohibited as cargo. At any rate, that's exactly why, for the last couple of decades, I have been shipping my outboards and chainsaws on cargo carriers exclusively. Some still accept them. For those interested, Northern Air Cargo's instructions are found AT THIS LINK.

    Clearly some are not comfortable taking my word for it, so my recommendation is to skip past all of us "experts" and simply call the cargo office during normal working hours. If you try to ship it anyway, or on the recommendation of someone on an Internet forum, and it turns out that the Company prohibits that item, you could be in deep weeds. VERIFY WITH THE CARRIER BEFORE YOU SHIP!!!

    And... all of this assumes that you are a Known Shipper... but that's another discussion for another day.

    -Mike
    Mike,

    I still think you are misinformed. I was at an AS station here in AK in the last week and asked specifically about outboards/engines. They can go as fully regulated dangerous goods or use the exemption/guidance document I attached to go as no dangerous goods both on the the pax or freighter A/C.

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398972477.348034.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1398972572.423715.jpg

  20. #20

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    I shipped one from Seattle to Adak on Alaska Airlines 10 years ago. I had to completely remove the fuel system, cleaned it out completely and took that portion in my checked baggage. I then thoroughly cleaned the motor so that there was no gas odor.
    That might still work??

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