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Thread: Race gas in the valley ?

  1. #1
    Member bigbear400's Avatar
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    Default Race gas in the valley ?

    Looking for a place that sells 110 race fuel in the wasilla/palmer area . Also looking to fill a bottle of nitrous. Does anyone know a source ?
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    Member JR2's Avatar
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    I think the race track sells race gas, as far as nitrous..I don't know.
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    Alaska On & Off Road Specialties

    advertises race gas. They are out by Poppert's mill, across from Three Bears in Meadow lakes. I don't have a number. Call a gas supply for nitrous refill? Like Aire Liquide.

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    Member bigbear400's Avatar
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    Thanks for the quick replies guys .I'll give them a call.
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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    Harleys used to sell Nitrous. I would check with Hatchers or any of the off road places.
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    Member bigbear400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabliss View Post
    Harleys used to sell Nitrous. I would check with Hatchers or any of the off road places.
    Thanks AB. Are you talking the Harley Davidson shop on the hwy?
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    Why not just buy aviation fuel?

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    Why not use avgas? Well because it really wouldn't be better than plain premium.

    AVGas Primer.

    Types of Av-gas
    1. Avgas 80/87: this product is used in low compression ratio aircraft engines, contains little or no lead, is red in color, and should not be used in any automotive engine due to a low motor octane number of about 80.
    2. Avgas 100/130: this product that can be used in some automotive engines. It has both research and motor octane numbers slightly over 100. Avgas 100/130 is green in color, contains four grams of lead per gallon, and is becoming harder to find.

    3. Avgas 100 LL: the LL stands for "low-lead" which means two grams per gallon, low compared to the avgas 100/130 that it was designed to replace. It has research and motor octane numbers very similar to the 100/130 product previously discussed. The color is blue. This product sometimes has a high level of aromatics which can contribute to lazy throttle response and dissatisfaction of the consumer.
    4. Avgas 115/145: this product was developed for high performance piston aircraft engines used in world war II and in the Korean war. It is very hard to find anymore due to lack of demand although it is of very high octane quality. The color is purple.

    Why not to use AvGas.
    AVGas is less dense than racing fuel.
    Instead of weighing about 6.1 to 6.3 pounds per gallon like racing gasoline, it weighs 5.8 to 5.9 pounds per gallon. The engine builder must compensate for this by changing to richer (larger) jets in the carburetor when changing from racing gasoline to avgas. The other major difference is octane quality. Avgas is short on octane compared to most racing gasolines. Many racing engines with "quick" spark advance curves or with no centrifugal advance have more spark advance at low rpm than avgas and some racing gasolines can handle. The result is detonation, especially during caution periods in circle track racing because all of the spark advance is "in", rpm is low, and part throttle air fuel ratios are too lean for the operating conditions. If the driver does not "work" the throttle back and forth, pistons can be "burned" which melts away part of the aluminum piston material. Inadequate octane quality is one of the quickest ways to destroy an engine. Pistons can be severely damaged during one acceleration where detonation is present and the driver may not know what is happening until it is too late.

    What you can do is
    just use a mix of 10-20% Tolulene or Xylene (both at home depot/lowes/paint stores less than $20 gallon) with your premium gas, and that would work great. Tolulene has an octane rating 117 R+M and Xylene a little less.

  9. #9
    Member bigbear400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Familyof6toAK View Post
    Why not use avgas? Well because it really wouldn't be better than plain premium.

    AVGas Primer.

    Types of Av-gas
    1. Avgas 80/87: this product is used in low compression ratio aircraft engines, contains little or no lead, is red in color, and should not be used in any automotive engine due to a low motor octane number of about 80.
    2. Avgas 100/130: this product that can be used in some automotive engines. It has both research and motor octane numbers slightly over 100. Avgas 100/130 is green in color, contains four grams of lead per gallon, and is becoming harder to find.

    3. Avgas 100 LL: the LL stands for "low-lead" which means two grams per gallon, low compared to the avgas 100/130 that it was designed to replace. It has research and motor octane numbers very similar to the 100/130 product previously discussed. The color is blue. This product sometimes has a high level of aromatics which can contribute to lazy throttle response and dissatisfaction of the consumer.
    4. Avgas 115/145: this product was developed for high performance piston aircraft engines used in world war II and in the Korean war. It is very hard to find anymore due to lack of demand although it is of very high octane quality. The color is purple.

    Why not to use AvGas.
    AVGas is less dense than racing fuel.
    Instead of weighing about 6.1 to 6.3 pounds per gallon like racing gasoline, it weighs 5.8 to 5.9 pounds per gallon. The engine builder must compensate for this by changing to richer (larger) jets in the carburetor when changing from racing gasoline to avgas. The other major difference is octane quality. Avgas is short on octane compared to most racing gasolines. Many racing engines with "quick" spark advance curves or with no centrifugal advance have more spark advance at low rpm than avgas and some racing gasolines can handle. The result is detonation, especially during caution periods in circle track racing because all of the spark advance is "in", rpm is low, and part throttle air fuel ratios are too lean for the operating conditions. If the driver does not "work" the throttle back and forth, pistons can be "burned" which melts away part of the aluminum piston material. Inadequate octane quality is one of the quickest ways to destroy an engine. Pistons can be severely damaged during one acceleration where detonation is present and the driver may not know what is happening until it is too late.

    What you can do is
    just use a mix of 10-20% Tolulene or Xylene (both at home depot/lowes/paint stores less than $20 gallon) with your premium gas, and that would work great. Tolulene has an octane rating 117 R+M and Xylene a little less.

    Wow! Leaned a few things there , great post !
    Owner of Bear Mountain Meats Game Processing .
    907-745-4756

  10. #10
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    I don't know where you copied and pasted that, but the idea of burning an engine using avgas has been around since I can remember, and I remember hearing about this back around 1973-1975.

    Use avgas, it is much less spendy that race gas. I would VERY much like to see someone run a motor on plain, premium, av and race gas. Only difference being the fuel, and see what the results are.

    I use avgas in my chainsaws (Husky 137, 394 modded, and 3120 much modified), have used in a 88hp Evinrude, 175hp Johnson, 440 Sport Polaris fan, 680 Ultra SPX SE, '99 800 XCR and currently a 2000 800 XCR, 2002 800 RMK, and 2007 AC Bearcat 570 fan. They run fine, actually better than fine. Especially when I run Blendzall in the chainsaws!

    Just cuz someone posts something on the internet doesn't mean it is correct. Imagine all the airplanes falling out of the sky running avgas!!

    Note: if you are running something 15/16:1 then yeah, better get the 110. Any less than that I wouldn't bother.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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  11. #11
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    LOL....Nitroman you a little bored. We need snow don't we?

    BTW....I have been running AVGAS like Nitro for years and have never seen anything as described in Family's post. The only thing he is correct about is steep advance or where you have way high compression, like in excess of 13:1. Even the steep advanced stuff is a thing of the past with modern electronics.

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    Disregard the Family whatever post above. The only avgas available is 100LL 'Blue'... The other colors/types haven't been around for over twenty years! Which should give you some idea about Family whatever's post above. Also he makes numerous other mistakes. Av gas is very stable. Auto fuel is not. Avgas can sit and stay good for at least three times as long as auto fuel. Which do you think is better for racing? 100LL has lead added to run in high comp engines, it does quite well at it...

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