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Thread: Undersized Win. primers?

  1. #1

    Default Undersized Win. primers?

    This is a new one on me. I have been using Winchester primers, in this case Large Rifle Standard, for many years. I like their consistency. But I have obtained a box of the newer dull brass colored primers, while the ones I've used for so long were nickle plated. Anyhoo, I went to load a batch of 270 Win cases, all of them either once or twice fired, and the primers just slid right in with almost no pressure. I stopped seating them, carefully removed the primers and tried both Federal and CCI primers in their place, having a couple boxes of each. They worked fine, so it wasn't something with the cases themselves. I have never reamed out commercial brass primer pockets, so they are not enlarged for that reason. Has anyone else had this experience?

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mauserboy View Post
    This is a new one on me. I have been using Winchester primers, in this case Large Rifle Standard, for many years. I like their consistency. But I have obtained a box of the newer dull brass colored primers, while the ones I've used for so long were nickle plated. Anyhoo, I went to load a batch of 270 Win cases, all of them either once or twice fired, and the primers just slid right in with almost no pressure. I stopped seating them, carefully removed the primers and tried both Federal and CCI primers in their place, having a couple boxes of each. They worked fine, so it wasn't something with the cases themselves. I have never reamed out commercial brass primer pockets, so they are not enlarged for that reason. Has anyone else had this experience?
    Yup. A few years ago when they switched from the old white box to the new blue box their primers changed too. My experience was similar to yours, except that in my brass the new ones required exponentially more seating pressure (to the point I was afraid of breaking my seating tool) than the old ones, and the pressure required was extremely inconsistent. It felt like the faces/edges of the new cups had burrs which were digging into the walls of the pockets during seating.

    I sold all the new ones I had in possession and switched brands. Got no time for that kind of ridiculousness.
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    I guess they didn't remember the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

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    I bought a couple of bricks of Winchester Primers recently, but I never got around to seating them. The cups were so rounded, and inconsistently rounded that I didn't like them. I took them back to SW, and they gave me my money back.

    In the past I've never used anything but CCI primers cept for a couple/three individual boxes of Federal Small Pistol primers.

    I was starting to run out of CCI Large Rifle primers, and at the time I couldn't get any more so I bought some Rem. 9 1/2 I find that they are not the same as the CCI 200s. They are bigger, and hard to seat, and I don't think they are as reliable. I've had some fail to fire, because of other problems, but I believe they were a contributing factor.

    I thought??? perhaps in all the rush because of the shortages, both Win, and Rem primer quality control was down. ???

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    Odd... just loaded a couple thousand WSP and they were very consistent.
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    I use WSP, WSPM and WLPM, haven't had issues with any of them. They have all been purchased in the last 6 months. I have NOT used WIN rifle primers.

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    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    I have a couple thousand win primers and the same in CCI 200's. The cci's are about 25yrs old and the win are a yr old. The win fit in much easier when reloading vs the cci's not to the point of I don't like them but noticeably easier to install. Never had any issues but I think it is wise to stay with a brand for a particular case so you don't jump back and forth with a snug brand vs a looser one...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alangaq View Post
    Odd... just loaded a couple thousand WSP and they were very consistent.
    There are strange things done under the Midnight Sun.

    The ones I had, Large Rifle, had more or less rounded cups, with a small flat portion, and that flat part was not always in the middle, or as flat as others.

    Some of them almost looked like the old Round Primers, that required a rounded primer seater.

    I have no idea how well they fit, or fired. They just looked so Cheap, and wrong compared to the CCIs I've used for so many years that I didn't trust them.

    I told SW in Wasilla, I wanted to return them if I could, and they said OK. They probably sent them to Anchorage.

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    Interesting, I've used and still use Winchester small and large pistol primers without a problem. Curious, but these WLR primers slip in so easily, I want to avoid potential gas leakage, which I have experienced on several occasions, from slightly oversized pockets due to my testing loads when I was still loading commercially. In those, the primers slipped in this easily also. I will have to locate some CCI LR primers and stay with them. I'll try these WLR primers in other cases and see what gives. Funny thing is, the cases I tried these in are Winchester also. Go figure. Thanks for the input.

  10. #10

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    I have gone to using Remington 7 1/2 Br for small rifle and 9 1/2 for large rifle. I got a real good deal on a bunch of Wolf pistol primers both small and large and really like them.

    A local fella.(plumb local as it turned out) called me one night a bunch of years ago as he was having some reloading problems and wondered if I could stop by(I was pretty new at it myself way back then). He had been loading his 243 to duplicate a 240 Weatherby and the primer pockets had grown, Hense the primers were falling out. His wife let me in and this here fella was sitting at his press when his wife lead me into the room. He exclaimed that he had solved the problem. He had found some larger primers of another breed(Herters I believe) that were actually seating hard. He was seating tight primers and actually bumping some of them in on fully loaded cases with his Rock Chucker ram and primer feed. I asked him if he would please not do that. He asked me why. Now this here fella had it all going for him. He was very handsome, had a high paying job and his wife was a beauty queen. I asked him if his wife married him for his money and he said no she married me for my looks. Well, says I, if one of those primers go off while your banging them into the hole your going to end up divorced cuz you ain't going to be handsome no more! He stopped and stared straight forward and got the dumbest look on his face. A light bulb clicked on in his noggin. And to think that that there fella got paid big bucks to think!

  11. #11

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    I still use Winchester pistol primers and small rifle primers for that matter, and they work fine. I might have gotten a bad lot of the large rifle primers, but if the quality control is off, I still worry. I'm vary careful in my reloading, even when I am loading safe max.

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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WLR 1.jpg 
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ID:	78007I know these aren’t the best pictures, however you can (at least I can) see a slight difference between the old and the new primers in that more of the new ones seem to have a more rounded look to them. How this would affect the amount of resistance felt when seating them, I don’t know.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Actually, I think it is the full diameter portion that is the problem, rather than the rounded "top" end. I'm considering calling Winchester, though I wonder if that would help.

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    Member Doug in Alaska's Avatar
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    Let us know what Winchester has to say. I have a lot of the newer primers and I'm interested in what the difference is.
    Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

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    I've loaded several 10 thousand WLR primers without a problem. The batch of 10,000 I'm using now has been the same as the others. Lot #VCL006G. I did note when they quit nickel plating them, but that didn't really bother me. I've noted the military has never used nickel primers.
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
    I've loaded several 10 thousand WLR primers without a problem. The batch of 10,000 I'm using now has been the same as the others. Lot #VCL006G. I did note when they quit nickel plating them, but that didn't really bother me. I've noted the military has never used nickel primers.
    Could very well be that I just had a bad batch... Maybe their tooling had become dull or out of adjustment. Not concerned with nickel plating, nor the exact radius of the cup, but the ones I had were horrific to get seated and that wasn't acceptable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Could very well be that I just had a bad batch... Maybe their tooling had become dull or out of adjustment. Not concerned with nickel plating, nor the exact radius of the cup, but the ones I had were horrific to get seated and that wasn't acceptable.
    I guess, after hearing all this, I'm glad I didn't TRY any of the Winchester primers I bought. And, that I was then able get my money back.

    The ones I had were brass colored, and the tops were not flat, but only a portion of the tops were flat, and the rest of them were rounded. The flat portions were bigger on some than others, and sometimes in different places, or so it seemed.

    They just looked like they were PP quality. I THOUGHT, they might exhibit inconsistent ignition. They had a bunch of'em there at SW, and I got only 2 bricks.

    IME, CCI primers are ALL flat on top, and the corners are square. There is no comparison to the Win primers, at least in their appearance.

    I don't like the Rem primers either, because the cup heights are larger than the heights of the CCI primers I'm used to, but I've been using them. After seating to the bottom of the uniformed primer pockets, they aren't as deep in the primer pocket. They were sometimes harder to seat, also.

    I read somewheres recently that some primer brands have more or less of that stuff that makes them go bang, betwixt the anvil and the top of the primer cup, than other brands. ????

    I'm still of the mind that in the rush to get their products out to the market, due to the shortage, Quality Control has suffered, at least with Win, and Rem. My latest CCIs are bootiful, lookin and work great, as far as I can tell.

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    I've loaded a couple thousand winchester primers in the past several years, from W209, WSP, WLP, WSR, WLR, and WLRM, I've never had one fail to go bang or have any issues with them. I really hope they haven't let QC slip, the only primer I use for my competition loads for skeet are W209, and I really like the WLP in my 44 Mag loads.
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