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Thread: What's with F&G management ?

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    Member Roland on the River's Avatar
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    Default What's with F&G management ?

    SE, 2 rods 3 Kings per day, Kodiak, Hunt goats thru March, Subsistence sheep, Baiting Brown Bears, shoot multiple Bears.

    Where does it end, when there's no more ?

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland on the River View Post
    ....Where does it end, when there's no more ?
    .......yup.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Member akiceman25's Avatar
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    And you end up eating chums. Just ask the natives on the Yukon river.
    I am serious... and don't call me Shirley.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland on the River View Post
    SE, 2 rods 3 Kings per day, Kodiak, Hunt goats thru March, Subsistence sheep, Baiting Brown Bears, shoot multiple Bears.

    Where does it end, when there's no more ?
    On Kodiak the goat population is expanding to the point that there are concerns about overpopulation and the negative results that can ensue. Better to liberalize seasons/limits than to overgraze the available habitat.

    Incidentally, most of these decisions were made by the Board of Game (political appointees), not F&G managers/biologists.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Incidentally, most of these decisions were made by the Board of Game (political appointees), not F&G managers/biologists.
    And who ever thought it was a good idea for political appointees to be given the discretionary power to make biological management decisions?
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    And who ever thought it was a good idea for political appointees to be given the discretionary power to make biological management decisions?
    Without a doubt the BIGGEST problem that we the people have with the current management strategies.
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    Member tlingitwarrior's Avatar
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    Huge year for King Salmon on the SE side. As Brian said, tons of goats is a problem. People on this site constantly talking about too many bears, not enough moose.

    Some people are never happy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    Without a doubt the BIGGEST problem that we the people have with the current management strategies.
    What is the cure? I guess I'm asking how?

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    Member FishGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlingitwarrior View Post
    Huge year for King Salmon on the SE side. As Brian said, tons of goats is a problem. People on this site constantly talking about too many bears, not enough moose.

    Some people are never happy.


    The truth hurts. Some people complain when limits are too restrictive and others when it's too liberal. You just can't please everybody.
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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    What is the cure? I guess I'm asking how?
    Well, if I were put in charge the first thing I'd do would be to end the board system entirely.
    Our fish and game should be managed with the best possible science, and minimal politics.
    Put scientists with management degrees in charge, make science and biology required of our decision and policy makers.
    take input from guides and commercial interests, but at an advisory level.

    Alas, I doubt we will ever see anything remotely resembling science based management in Alaska. Big money and little foresight are the rule these days...
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    Default Are our public resources being taken out from under us?

    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    Well, if I were put in charge the first thing I'd do would be to end the board system entirely.
    Our fish and game should be managed with the best possible science, and minimal politics.
    Put scientists with management degrees in charge, make science and biology required of our decision and policy makers.
    take input from guides and commercial interests, but at an advisory level.

    Alas, I doubt we will ever see anything remotely resembling science based management in Alaska. Big money and little foresight are the rule these days...
    Many events of late show pretty convincingly that we've got a fox in charge of the hen house. The issuance of all the new Guv tags is a recent nail in our public resource's coffin.

    I get the strong and sinking feeling that those we've charged with protecting our wildlife resources are literally selling our assets to the highest bidder right out from under our feet, instead of protecting its habitat, health and numbers.

    Is it possible to toss the bums out? Politically speaking, probably not, eh? Didn't think so.

    Just because I'm cynical on this subject does not make me wrong.

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    Our fish and game should be managed with the best possible science, and minimal politics.
    Put scientists with management degrees in charge, make science and biology required of our decision and policy makers.
    So what your saying, Dave, is you want scientists and managers who work at the bequest of, may be fired and replaced by, and who are hired by, a politically elected official, our Governor. He appoints his administration (aren't they voted on by elected officials like the current BoG?) and his administrators hire who they like.
    Then, Dave, these "scientists and managers" go out ans GATHER the data, they interpret the data, and then you THINK they will always do what is best for the resource and us with no POLITICAL influence? Hahahahaha!

    If the folks who complain on here would gather up their like minded friends and put pressure on the elected officials who have to vote on BoG nominations, maybe they would be more satisfied with the outcome.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    Well, if I were put in charge the first thing I'd do would be to end the board system entirely.
    Our fish and game should be managed with the best possible science, and minimal politics.
    Put scientists with management degrees in charge, make science and biology required of our decision and policy makers.
    take input from guides and commercial interests, but at an advisory level.

    Alas, I doubt we will ever see anything remotely resembling science based management in Alaska. Big money and little foresight are the rule these days...

    Ill take a little common sense over the scientists.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland on the River View Post
    SE, 2 rods 3 Kings per day,
    First, it's two rods in the winter. Read the publication. Two rods end on March 31st.

    Second, do you understand how they came to 3 kings a day? Ever hear of an abundance index? It's a knife that cuts both way, and it's been cutting the wrong way as far as limits go, for most years. Do you understand where those kings come from? Do you know previous limits? Seems to me that you need to educate yourself a bit more.

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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    First, it's two rods in the winter. Read the publication. Two rods end on March 31st.

    Second, do you understand how they came to 3 kings a day? Ever hear of an abundance index? It's a knife that cuts both way, and it's been cutting the wrong way as far as limits go, for most years. Do you understand where those kings come from? Do you know previous limits? Seems to me that you need to educate yourself a bit more.
    There's no such thing as over abundance or over escapement, ask the kenai river king fisherman, they will set you straight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    First, it's two rods in the winter. Read the publication. Two rods end on March 31st.

    Second, do you understand how they came to 3 kings a day? Ever hear of an abundance index? It's a knife that cuts both way, and it's been cutting the wrong way as far as limits go, for most years. Do you understand where those kings come from? Do you know previous limits? Seems to me that you need to educate yourself a bit more.
    Totally agree, even with 3 black bears a year, the total 2012 baiting total on the refuge was like 24 bears. Total estimated population on the peninsula is above 3,000. Those 24 bears are well inside the surplus animals for the year, way more than that will starve in a season.

    I've watched F&G departments in 3 states over the years and ADFG is by far the best of them, perfect, no.

    Why let a population crash (goats) if liberalized harvest can keep the numbers up and provide more opportunity.

    Whats next, the save the Kenai Pinks campaign? You could make the pink limit 20 a day and they would be fine. I applaud the fact that its 6 a day just to limit waste, but its really not necessary.

    Do things change? Yes, and ADFG responds, perhaps too slow for some, too fast for others. At least they closed the king run this year, we should be showering them with roses...

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    If the adverage Joe don't catch the Kings a gillnetter from the lower 48 will. As for Brown bears we get one every four years a need a 25 dollar tag as they are trophys to be proud of,some places they are just trash game to leave in the field if allowed.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FullFreezer View Post
    Ill take a little common sense over the scientists.
    I think that was the original plan when the board system was adopted. It is pretty clear where that idea has gotten us.
    Remember, it is NOT F&G making the final decision, it is a board of appointees with, (for the most part) with little or no formal management education.

    i mean, fer crying out loud, one of the BOF members, during a discussion on hook size and type restrictions on the Kenai, and the efficacy of different fishing methods actually made this statement.. "I have a little Tupperware box of ..what do you call 'em?... Oh yeah, pixies... That's about all I know about fishing"
    REALLY!!! And you're MAKING THE DECISIONS!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    If the adverage Joe don't catch the Kings a gillnetter from the lower 48 will. .
    I disagree that if the average Joe don't catch the Kings a gillnetter will.

    We have had limited entry fishing since @ 72 and had **** good King fishing right along with management of the gill net fleet for a long time after.

    What's happened to our King fishing; as an example of mis-management of our resources, is the unrestricted commercial IN RIVER fishing that has developed over the years.

    That's the same kind of problem we have with game. Unrestricted commercial hunting for years and years and years has clearly affected resident opportunities.

    If ALL the non resident king fishing in the river was outlawed 5/10 years ago; or even limited non resident king fishing to 10% of what it was 5/10 years ago, the average joe would likely have little problem catching a king today.

    The problem is not management.

    The problem is the SOA policy of selling unlimited opportunity to non residents.

    It should be obvious now to anyone paying attention that it's going to take a political fix to develop a State policy of limiting non resident opportunity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FullFreezer View Post
    Ill take a little common sense over the scientists.
    I agree, if the scientists had it their way we wouldn't even be allowed on the river in many cases.

    A balance of common sense and science would be great, but who's ever heard of a "F&G Engineer"? I think they all got outsourced to China...

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