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Thread: The need to make more rivers drift only!

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    Default The need to make more rivers drift only!

    Here is why we need to shutdown more rivers to power boats, and not just for fishing but no motors at all.
    http://youtu.be/WnWxl7nuAqA
    Hey let's make some small boats so we can go tear up the spawning beds. What are people thinking? Keep it up and it will end up with no power boats above tidewater on larger rivers and no power boats at all on smaller streams. Hey it looks like fun, but at what cost?

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    Moderator bkmail's Avatar
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    I completely disagree with you MGH.....to each his own though.
    BK

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    MG... You do realize that any where those boats hit the river bottom, that river bottom has been frozen over winter and further gouged by the ice breakup thru the spring? Further, on that particular river where you gonna put in and float to for take out? ( guess a guy might canoe/kayak up it. )
    Your sarcasm is way, waaaayyyyyyyy more sarcastic than mine!

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    Looks like lotsa fun. I doubt that little guys like these would have much impact on salmon rearing, but imagine a fleet of them, and a bunch of bigger ones as well. It seems that some rivers are getting very congested, and I can't imagine how rules won't be forthcoming. It's not like the old wide open Alaska anymore.

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    On two different occasions hunting on the West Side I witnessed jet skis tearing up spawning grounds. The Cohos were darting out all over the place and the water was instantly full of muck. I find it hard to believe it didn't hurt the spawning. Screwed up my moose calling too. Apparently they crossed the Cook Inlet out of Anchorage somewhere. They were towing a jet ski trailer with their gear and fuel. Have you ever watched boats run the Little Su and its tribs?...can't see how that's good for spawners either. BTW, is it legal to run a power boat up the Snow and 20-mile Rivers shown in those vids? I thought that was designated "wilderness" or something?....

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    Moderator bkmail's Avatar
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    It's legal.
    In the past there was a commercial operator running jetboat rides up the 20 mile. They would get the tour bus crowd.
    BK

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    I own four snow machines, a 4-wheeler and two powered boats, and I use them all, but I have to say that it seems there are more and more folks who can only enjoy Alaska at full throttle. Which is all well and good except for animals left in the wake and the folks who enjoy taking things slower and quieter.

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    Why do you disagree? I am sure you know that just because it is legal, doesn't make it right! I would have posted the pictures of those mini jets tearing up the Little Susitna River. Raising he!! on the water is fun, but don't do it in rivers that the salmon runs need protection. I forgot it is legal so rip up the spawning beds all you want, so do it and point at everyone else for low fish returns.
    Quote Originally Posted by bkmail View Post
    It's legal.
    In the past there was a commercial operator running jetboat rides up the 20 mile. They would get the tour bus crowd.
    BK

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGH55 View Post
    Why do you disagree? I am sure you know that just because it is legal, doesn't make it right! I would have posted the pictures of those mini jets tearing up the Little Susitna River. Raising he!! on the water is fun, but don't do it in rivers that the salmon runs need protection. I forgot it is legal so rip up the spawning beds all you want, so do it and point at everyone else for low fish returns.
    MGH,
    Your making assumptions now...I didn't type anything about low fish returns or ripping up the spawning beds or raising hell on the Lil Su!

    I disagree with you about needing more drift only rivers and simply pointed out the above post questioning the legality of running a powerboat up the listed rivers. Just pointing out the fact that its legal to do so and many, many, many people run up these rivers for pleasure boat rides, hunting, and fishing.

    These lil mini boats running in these two rivers at this time frame are not doing any damage that winter ice hadn't already done, as stated above. They are running the channels, on step. I see no problem with their actions. In fact, I would love to being doing the same thing right now.
    And, there are no slamon spawning in the river today (March) at either of these locations. You could argue they are sucking up smolt through the impeller but I doubt it as the birds do more damage to fry than a mini jetboat in March.

    The low fish numbers is an entirely different debate that I don't care to get into. Appreciate the oppurtunity to discuss and debate with you MGH. Thanks for asking my opinion.
    BK

  11. #11

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    There could be a debate on whether or not the wakes from jet boats hitting the beach has anything to do with bank erosion filling the river with mud and silt thus while inhibiting the full cycle of the spawn, hatch, fry and smolt growth, and return.
    Go!!!
    Piscor Ergo Sum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franken Fish View Post
    There could be a debate on whether or not the wakes from jet boats hitting the beach has anything to do with bank erosion filling the river with mud and silt thus while inhibiting the full cycle of the spawn, hatch, fry and smolt growth, and return.
    Go!!!
    Now this is the only claim against boats that is worth discussing (though it's only in extreme cases it is any worse than mother nature). Salmon biology dictates that once eggs are covered up, no amount of boats going over them are going to mess them up. That's why they do what they do. The silt release caused by a jetboat is hardly enough to smother a redd full of eggs, this has been looked at, addressed, and dismissed. Next.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch It View Post
    Now this is the only claim against boats that is worth discussing (though it's only in extreme cases it is any worse than mother nature). Salmon biology dictates that once eggs are covered up, no amount of boats going over them are going to mess them up. That's why they do what they do. The silt release caused by a jetboat is hardly enough to smother a redd full of eggs, this has been looked at, addressed, and dismissed. Next.......
    There is more to it than eggs under gravel. So what do the in river fry and smolt feed on? Does the boat caused turbidity affect these creatures which then in turn would affect the full cycle of the spawn?
    "The North wind is cold no matter what direction it's blowing"

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Early last fall on the Kasilof River, my boy and I kayaked upriver to a beach and were having a picnic. Around the corner comes a jet boat about 20 feet out and totally wakes us. Both kayaks (which had been pulled up on the beach) get pulled out then washed back in and turned over, my shotgun in the cockpit falls into the water and gets full of sand and gravel, our little fire gets extinguished... I wave my fists in frustration... they smile as if they just delivered a wonderful experience to us.

    I was very surprised at what a wake can do, and even more surprised to find a handful of little fish stranded on the beach.
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    bkmail, you are right you did not type anything about low fish returns, or ripping up spawning beds or raising hell on the Lil Su. I did because that is what I saw them doing on Youtube! Like I tell my kids, if you don't ever want it used against you never put it out for all to see! I would never say that it doesn't look like fun. I think it would be more fun running them off the Homer spit in 6 footers, but that's just me

  16. #16

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    Lets get a count of how many drift boats are registered in the state versus motorized boats. If we are talking about closing rivers to motors, we should use that ratio to determine how many rivers to close to non motorized boats for every one closed to motorized.
    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Echo View Post
    Lets get a count of how many drift boats are registered in the state versus motorized boats. If we are talking about closing rivers to motors, we should use that ratio to determine how many rivers to close to non motorized boats for every one closed to motorized.
    Mike
    So...You're saying we should manage our resources based on who has what toy? Based on that, um, logic let's get a count on bows vs firearms for hunts, spin gear vs. fly gear for fishing, and for crying out loud let's get a show of hands on microbrewery vs PBR......
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannerAK View Post
    There is more to it than eggs under gravel. So what do the in river fry and smolt feed on? Does the boat caused turbidity affect these creatures which then in turn would affect the full cycle of the spawn?
    If anything as far as feed goes, the wake and action would release benthic bugs that would now become available in the drift. The other thing to consider here is that most fry and fingerlings don't hang in the mainstem, and if they do, they are usually under cutbanks, up tribs and hugged up to some woody debris. This also minimizes the effect. The turbidity is intermittent and a river does what it does, it flushes it out. It in no way could be compared to say logging or agriculture that brings tons of dirt from the watershed to the river.

    Here's another point......look at the Stikine and Taku Rivers down south.....they are nasty chocolate mud without a single boat on them.....it actually shines the paint off your boat and I swear you can hear it rolling down the river like liquid sandpaper. There are lots and lots and lots of juveniles living and traveling those areas.

    Surely boat traffic is not a net gain for fish......but I guarantee it's not the reason for a decline.....no matter what makes sense on the barstool.

  19. #19
    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Ah, the old benthic bug argument. Well played.

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    This is, after all, a democracy Hippie, not a contest of who shouts the loudest.
    I say more Alaskans will experience the outdoors with motors than without, limiting access to human power is just discrimination - period.
    Mike
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