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Thread: One more question about cast boolets and rate of twist

  1. #1
    Member fishnngrinn's Avatar
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    Default One more question about cast boolets and rate of twist

    I have a .54 with 1:66 deep cut rifling. I have read and re read Brown Bear's discussion on rate of twist: http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...tlock-question

    And his experience with .54 New Englander here:
    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/128404-54-cal-new-englander


    Brown Bear said that deep rifling with 1:48 works great, I am wondering if anyone has experience with 1:66 with deep rifling for something like the Hornady Great Plains boolet? That twist maybe just too slow for heavier boolets?

    Thanks in advance.
    NRA Lifetime Member

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    The one in sixty-six in my 54 caliber only likes round ball.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    The one in sixty-six in my 54 caliber only likes round ball.
    Same here. If you can drive a short conical fast enough, it will group at closer ranges, but opens up fast as distance stretches. I tried GP's in my own 54 Lyman Great Plains Rifle with its 1:66 twist. Results were terrible until I ran the charges way up, giving me 3-4" groups at 50 yards. I was kinda encouraged until I moved back to 100 yards. I couldn't reliably keep the shots on the target paper, much less produce a group.

    Not really an issue at all though. A 54 cal RB is plenty for moose and elk inside 100 yards.

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    In my 54 cal Lyman Great Plains, I was able to get a round ball up to 1,960 fps using 120 grains BY VOLUME of Pyrodex.
    I do not know the ballistic coefficient of a round ball, but at 100 yards I am sure it is still going fast enough to make a big mess.

    .530 round ball
    .020 heavy patch lubed with Wonder Lube

    Old Pyrodex Rifle by volume.

    100 grains = 1,625 fps
    110 grains = 1,651 fps
    120 grains = 1,962 fps tight group
    130 grains = 1833 fps

    Same ball and patch but using GOEX FFg

    120 gains = 1,704 fps. very good group

    .535 diameter ball with a 015 patch (Lubed patch)
    120 grains Pyrodex = 1,830 fps but a bad group.
    The same for 120 grains of FFg except slower at 1,690 fps and a very bad group.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
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    Member fishnngrinn's Avatar
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    Thank you, Pilot and Brown Bear. I appreciate your feedback.
    NRA Lifetime Member

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    I just ran across this thread and it interested me. I have a TC Renegade in 54 caliber. I use Triple 7 powder usually 100 grains of powder. I have tried sabots and Hornday Great Plains lead bullets. At 25 yards wth Hornday and Great Plains the rifle is deadly accurate. I can hit the bulls eye 9 out of ten times. When I move the target back to 50 yards I'm all over the target from one end to the other. Brownbear, if I understand you right,
    I need to up my charge to 120 grains for better accuracy with the 1 in 48 inch twist and the large projectile?

  7. #7

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    Try a lubed felt wad between your powder and that Great Plains bullet. Once of the best longrange combos I've ever found, and in a lot of different guns.

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    Thanks for the info, I'll give it a try.

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    After doing a lot of reading on the many black powder muzzle loader forums I decided to try shooting round balls. I have a TC 54 cal. renegade that I've had for years. It has a 1:48 inch twist barrel. Most of the shooters found their sweet spot to be 70-80 grains of triple 7 or whatever powder they chose to use. I went to the gun range last Thursday with a new sense of purpose. I set the target at 25 yards. These targets have a small bullseye about 2 inches in diameter. I put 70 grains of triple 7 in for my first shot. After the smoke cleared I saw that I'd hit the edge of the bullseye. I shot again and i hit an inch away from the bullseye. Moved the target back to the 50 yd. line and shot 8 more times with the same load of 70 grains. I hit the edge of the bullseye one more time and all of the other shots were no more than an inch to inch and a half away from the bullseye. I have never shot that good with conicals. I'm really excited about deer season that opens here in Oklahoma at the end of this month. I doubt I would ever have a shot much past 50 yards because I hunt in thick woods. I was thinking about buying an inline but just couldn't bring myself to do it. This old muzzle loader is perfect for my situation.

  10. #10

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    Glad it worked out for you, but that kind of performance is pretty normal with the right patch, ball and powder combo. Next up is to discover how well round balls kill within their range- In spite of everything against them the manufacturers of modern gear try to push down your throat. Put your shot in the right place, and it's dead critter time. Nice thing for me, round balls are so cheap (or easy to make your own) and easy on your shoulder, you'll shoot lots more outside the season and make those certain shots easier when the chips are down.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
    Merle Haggard

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    Member akgun&ammo's Avatar
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    So what's is the thought about rnd ball for caribou size game?

    I am just thinking about casting more bullets to play more.

    My moose this year was with a 50 BP frontstuffer...

    And yes, I did re-load pretty quick when it did not fall down.

    I feel this was mostly the chosen projectile failure to penetrate properly.

    The powerbelt disintegrated on contact of hide...

    wasted valuable meat..

    and had to shoot multiple times..

    have plan for heavy game already since then,but want to shoot more and maybe use same "practice" bullet to hunt

    Chris

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by akgun&ammo View Post
    The powerbelt disintegrated on contact of hide...
    When you said the first shot didn't kill, I kinda guessed you were using a Power Belt. Terrible reputation for just that. On moose and elk I've never recovered a pure lead bullet such as the TC Maxi or the Hornady Great Plains. One 54 cal round ball under the far hide on a chest shot when I shot at 75 rather than my self-imposed 50 yards for the bigguns. Never recovered a 58 caliber or 62 caliber round ball.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
    Merle Haggard

  13. #13

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    October 15 is the start of Iowa's muzzleloader season. I have an old but very clean Investarms 50 caliber Hawkens. 80 grains of most anything and tightly patched .490 home grown roundball will tip over the biggest corn fed whitetails. I. am 100% confident out to 100 yards but seldom need to shoot over 50. Last year I killed a big bodied 18 inch wide 9 pointer with my 50 cal Lyman Plains pistol shooting the same round balls at about 1200fps. I hit him in the heart at 20 yards and watched him pile up 40 yards later. it could be my most memorable deer kill ever.

    This year I have 9 straight days to kill 3 deer. This is my 40th year of hunting muzzleloader season without missing a season and I still get wound up like a kid.

    Your 54 will kill anything with hooves if you hit them in the boiler room. My 54s would shoot Lee Real bullets just fine but they weighed the same as a round ball so I stuck with round balls. My short barreled White Mountain Carbines excel with the Lee Real bullets over a round ball.

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