Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 48

Thread: How do charters keep the fish straight??

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,448

    Default How do charters keep the fish straight??

    Just a quick question. I have only been on one charter and we had the whole boat out of Seward. How do they keep it straight who catches what fish for the end of the day so the ones that waited for bigger fish get them. Just wondering how they do that.

  2. #2
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,366

    Default ???

    If it is a six pack, not hard to do. The deckhand should be aware of who is catching what. On a bigger boat, I have been given a small 2 colored slip tie's which get attached to your fish when you decide to keep them. You must be posting to stir up discussion cause you, yourself look to be involved in the charter industry, am I correct?
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  3. #3
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central Kenai Peninsula
    Posts
    4,887

    Default

    Ive never done it but I have heard of colored zip ties or notches in the tail.
    One notch is angler A two notches is angler B etc.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  4. #4

    Default

    On the military charters out of Seward, where they may have to keep up to 18 people separate, they tell each angler or group of anglers what their mark on the fish will be. Whenever a fish is caught the deckhands ask the fisherman what is their mark and the deckhands mark it. It is usually a cut somewhere on the fish, like under the mouth, top of head, top of fish in front of tail, cut off top of tail fin, etc. It seemed to work well on the charters I've had with them. I've been on six packs where they do the same thing, even for silvers.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kgpcr View Post
    ones that waited for bigger fish get them.
    Now that mortality is factored into our GHL, it'd be wise of the charters to start cracking down on excessive catch and release for halibut. Reform is needed in some of the possession rules on charters, in my opinion. It'd be a great way for the charter fleet to to eek out a bit more quota by cutting down on the guys who want to catch and release 20 halibut in order to get more meat.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,448

    Default

    I would have no interest in taking a charter where I could not wait for a decent fish being you can only have one over 8lbs. Not one bit of interest. Its a total waste of money to go on a halibut charter for 300.00 and be forced to keep a 20lb and an 8lb fish. that would be a total rip off. I don't feel one bit bad waiting for a 30 -35 or so when the trawl fleet wastes many tons of fish. I am not blaming the charter fleet as they have rules to abide by but lets get real here. If you had to keep a chicken and a ping pong paddle your trip would be very short indeed and you still are paying 300.00. It would not even be a quality trip. Charter captains would fish close at the chicken holes to save time and money on fuel. The angler would get screwed and screwed hard.

  7. #7

    Default

    Then don't go on a charter. Demand for charters are unreal right now, and they'll have no problem filling your spot. With what we know about halibut mortality, it is very short sighted for any captain to park on a hole and let his customers sort through halibut every single day, all season long, to get a decent grade. And, those halibut released better be recorded in the log book, which I'm sure most of them aren't. Captains with excessive releases of small fish should be penalized the following year, in my opinion.

    Any professional captain will know how to get a good grade of halibut without having to "sort". If they can't, they have absolutely should not be guiding. If a guide is just taking his customers out to get a 20lb and an 8lb halibut he won't stay in business, because other operations will provide a better experience. Free market at work. Most good captains will be able to put a good "average" in the boat though on a daily basis, and everybody will be happy when taking home meat.

    If I were in charge of the fishery, I'd make it so the boat had a limit, based on the current limits and the amount of clients. All fish over a certain size should be required to be kept no matter who hooks them. Longliners must keep all fish over 32", right? No highgrading for them. Make it a 35" or 36" limit for charters. all fish over 36" must be retained until the limit is reached. Charters will respond by learning to target a bigger grade of fish, without massive releases. Once the boat catches it's limit, it's time to move on to another species. No sitting and sorting. At the end of trip, fish is divided equally. This applies for all species. Halibut, kings, coho, lings, yellow eye, and rockfish. Charters should aim for almost zero mortality on all species, to maximize the amount of fish it can keep. Right now the laws don't promote that. With the definition of "possession", it forces charters to release fish that will die, while fishing in areas with multiple species. Less mortality means more fish for clients.

  8. #8

    Default

    BTW, the estimates for wastage of the charter fleet are 41,000 lb in Area 2C total and 36,000 lb in Area 3A. And, they are probably of smaller size, so that equals a lot of wasted halibut.

  9. #9
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central Kenai Peninsula
    Posts
    4,887

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    Then don't go on a charter.
    I would have to agree with your views on this subject.
    I have many choices on how I get my fish. Buying it in the store is one option.
    So is buying a boat and catching it myself(I do own a boat for halibut).
    I have several friends with boats so I could bum a couple trips a year by putting up some $$$ for gas and bait.
    I have caught halibut on the beach surfcasting so that is another option.
    As is taking a charter trip once or twice a year.
    While some charters anglers mainly fish for the meat and itemize it out so X$$ must = X Pounds of fish many are there for the entire package.
    The whole experience. The views of the ocean and the mountains.
    The Wildlife such as Otters,Seals,and Whales.
    Just like many hunters hunt strictly for the meat yet others enjoy the time camping with family and friends and the harvest is a mere bonus.
    How much do people pay just for the chance to see whales on a tour boat with nothing to take home from it except memories and pictures?
    What anything is worth is between the buyer and seller. If there are willing charter customers willing to pay what a charter cost I fail to see a problem with it.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    Longliners must keep all fish over 32", right? No highgrading for them. .
    270 your point here has no point as they are limited by poundage not number of fish. I do understand what you are saying but sooner or later it just makes no sense to go on a charter if all you can do is get one 20lb fish and a 8 pound runt. Many charters ONLY fish halibut and when you are done with halibut you are done and in you go. I just think if they pass a rule like that the quality will drop like a rock as they wont go any further than they have to. Why would you? Say you go out 60 miles and you pull up a 20lb fish and you have to keep it now you are down to a runt to fish for. Why would you go out that far? there goes looking at whales and the scenery. The capt will hit a spot where he will get his fish and go home without spending all the money on fuel. as you said charters are in big demand so they will fill up anyway.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    1,763

    Default

    sport fisher men need a size limit just like the longliners [ it has to be 32 or over ] I think it would be the best thing going for all of us ,
    SID

  12. #12
    Member AKCAPT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seward
    Posts
    1,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kgpcr View Post
    270 your point here has no point as they are limited by poundage not number of fish. I do understand what you are saying but sooner or later it just makes no sense to go on a charter if all you can do is get one 20lb fish and a 8 pound runt. Many charters ONLY fish halibut and when you are done with halibut you are done and in you go. I just think if they pass a rule like that the quality will drop like a rock as they wont go any further than they have to. Why would you? Say you go out 60 miles and you pull up a 20lb fish and you have to keep it now you are down to a runt to fish for. Why would you go out that far? there goes looking at whales and the scenery. The capt will hit a spot where he will get his fish and go home without spending all the money on fuel. as you said charters are in big demand so they will fill up anyway.
    I don't think the point is either not going on a charter or not trying for decent fish. The point 270 is making is that as charter captains we need to stop and discourage the practice of sitting on a chicken patch and sorting through 200 8-12 pound halibut to make a limit of 16 - 20 pounders because it is going to mean more restrictions for the next year. We are much better off sitting on a rock pile for two or three hours and picking a few rockfish and a few bigger halibut before moving on to the chicken patch.
    Also with 5 new big boats coming to Seward this year, it is high time for people to stop buying more boats right now unless they don't care about bag limits. As hard a I lobbied to keep us at two fish this year, is it disheartening when some rich guy from California, who doesn't need the money, is having two new boats build and brought into Seward and another is getting a third boat and in the same web page is selling t shirts complaining about the size reduction….. and blaming NMFS……..Clearly we are our own worst enemy …...

  13. #13

    Default

    I'm fearful that 2c will face further reductions in 2015, as everybody is so booked up in 2014. Everybody is starting their seasons earlier, and ending them later. That 41,000lbs of waste we get deducted now will suddenly become very important. It was the difference to give us a u44/o76 as opposed to the u45/o68 we had last yeah. Huge difference for it, as it basically lost our upper end fish. We need to get serious about catch/release halibut mortality.

    Another option would be to give each angler 2 releases a day. 3rd fish goes in the box, no matter what it is.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AKCAPT View Post
    I don't think the point is either not going on a charter or not trying for decent fish. The point 270 is making is that as charter captains we need to stop and discourage the practice of sitting on a chicken patch and sorting through 200 8-12 pound halibut to make a limit of 16 - 20 pounders because it is going to mean more restrictions for the next year. We are much better off sitting on a rock pile for two or three hours and picking a few rockfish and a few bigger halibut before moving on to the chicken patch.
    Also with 5 new big boats coming to Seward this year, it is high time for people to stop buying more boats right now unless they don't care about bag limits. As hard a I lobbied to keep us at two fish this year, is it disheartening when some rich guy from California, who doesn't need the money, is having two new boats build and brought into Seward and another is getting a third boat and in the same web page is selling t shirts complaining about the size reduction….. and blaming NMFS……..Clearly we are our own worst enemy …...
    AK Capt I would agree with the trying for a few nice fish first. I have no desire for a barn door. If I ever get lucky enough to hook into something 70 or larger she will get her picture taken and sent on her way to go make lots of babies with good genes. How can those guys be starting operations? I thought there was no more entry unless you buy some one's permit. If so that would be a no net gain. Or am I in the dark on that one?

  15. #15
    Member jrogers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    1,539

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    With what we know about halibut mortality, it is very short sighted for any captain to park on a hole and let his customers sort through halibut

    What do we know about halibut mortality?


    I thought halibut were pretty resilient when released from a circle hook.
    2009 Seawolf 31'
    www.seawolfmarine.com
    Fully Loaded

  16. #16

    Default

    Look, each individual angler sitting there and catching and releasing 5-10 halibut a day to get a decent fish might not be a big deal to you right now, but it'll be a big deal down the road. Those fish count now. We need to make very fish count. I understand that you are coming up here with that 1 shot to get a nice fish. Believe me, I understand that and I work my tail off to give people like you the best trip of their lives, every day that I leave the dock. But also understand that these issues are a big deal to us too. We feed our families off of what we make charter fishing, and it'd be nice to still have a job in 10 years. We just need to be mindful of the big picture here. The big picture is that we need to make this industry sustainable. Catch and release mortality is something we need to deal with.

    If all you can do is catch a 20lb halibut and an 8lb halibut, I suggest you look elsewhere for your charters. That would be the worst day of fishing in my career.

    Quote Originally Posted by kgpcr View Post
    270 your point here has no point as they are limited by poundage not number of fish. I do understand what you are saying but sooner or later it just makes no sense to go on a charter if all you can do is get one 20lb fish and a 8 pound runt. Many charters ONLY fish halibut and when you are done with halibut you are done and in you go. I just think if they pass a rule like that the quality will drop like a rock as they wont go any further than they have to. Why would you? Say you go out 60 miles and you pull up a 20lb fish and you have to keep it now you are down to a runt to fish for. Why would you go out that far? there goes looking at whales and the scenery. The capt will hit a spot where he will get his fish and go home without spending all the money on fuel. as you said charters are in big demand so they will fill up anyway.

  17. #17
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Eagle River, AK
    Posts
    13,393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AKCAPT View Post
    Also with 5 new big boats coming to Seward this year, it is high time for people to stop buying more boats right now unless they don't care about bag limits.
    Andy, is there any trend as to where these permits are coming from? As in, were most of them bought from charters that used to fish out of Ninilchik, Valdez, Homer, etc? I don't know if you have that info, but it seems that if Seward is gaining boats, there must be a reduction elsewhere...unless these are just permits that were awarded when it went limited entry but not actually fished in recent years? Forgive the ignorance - I only have a cursory understanding of the charter permit system.

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jrogers View Post
    What do we know about halibut mortality?


    I thought halibut were pretty resilient when released from a circle hook.
    I used to know the mortality rate off the top of my head, but it escapes me right now. I'm not going to look it up right now either. 10% comes to mind, but I could be off on that. Whether it's 5 or 10%, it really adds up when you have boats parking on the patches.

    But, it's costing the charter fleet quota to the tune where it's now affecting our limits. That was one of the things about the catch sharing plan. I view it as a good thing, as charters who actually pay attention to things now have incentive to reduce catch and release mortality.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    723

    Default

    20 lb fish + 8lb fish equals approximately 14 lbs meat, right?

    At last year's grocery store prices for fresh, non frozen halibut, that's $250-$310 of fish. Nuts, I know, but it is what it is.

    So even there you pay for your fish plus get to go fishing. Anything more than that is icing.

  20. #20
    Member AKCAPT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seward
    Posts
    1,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Andy, is there any trend as to where these permits are coming from? As in, were most of them bought from charters that used to fish out of Ninilchik, Valdez, Homer, etc? I don't know if you have that info, but it seems that if Seward is gaining boats, there must be a reduction elsewhere...unless these are just permits that were awarded when it went limited entry but not actually fished in recent years? Forgive the ignorance - I only have a cursory understanding of the charter permit system.
    Hi Brian,
    Yea there are something like 35% of the permits are not being used. On top of that a large number of permits were issued as non transferable and they are still being leased to other boats. The idea was that the non transferable permits would leave the fishery when people retired but instead they have become a commodity and they are staying. The qualifying criteria was very easy and they gave out way too many permits.
    'So seward can gain boats from a latent capacity of permits. There is plenty of room for growth there are just no more halibut to support that growth.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •