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Thread: Remote camping: Rules on cutting down trees?

  1. #21
    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch It View Post
    It's the ultimate wilderness until the cub on floats pulls up in front of your camp and starts asking silly questions.

    Our ranger incident was bizarre, we had JUST finished hauling out a nice moose from behind camp, my moose was on the pole (paperwork, spread, etc was checked earlier in the week by trooper, good guy). So this gal hit the jackpot.....she got to check a fresh kill for sex, waste, spread, got to check all of my stuff (again) and got to sniff around looking for camping no no's and this vegetation cutting BS that is now on the radar, boat registrations, booze breath (luckily I had just mixed up the celebratory bloody mary's), The only thing she could comment on was the cut boughs etc. That, and asking if I thought I had notched my filled harvest ticket enough (rhetorical). When she asked to see my three day old kill site I said "Sure, but you walk in first " the last thing I wish to do is take a good hard look at a three day old gutpile a few hundred yards from the water in one of the world's biggest sockeye producing systems......um, no thank you. She declined.

    Anyhoo, back to the point, doesn't sound like your lean to is a big whoop, but if you are anywhere near a major body of water, I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't contacted by some kind of park staff, and most of that area has plenty of dead spruce to use for whatever you need.
    Too many LEOs with too little to do but harass regular people.
    One of my friends is an ex-game warden who worked in both the Lake Clark area and the Kenai Peninsula. Fun to talk with him and hear what he used to check for and what he would allow people to get away with because he knew they were in need or it was an honest mistake or an oversight. Also fun to hear how he busted people. He has very little patience with the current bunch.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch It View Post
    It's the ultimate wilderness until the cub on floats pulls up in front of your camp and starts asking silly questions.

    Our ranger incident was bizarre, we had JUST finished hauling out a nice moose from behind camp, my moose was on the pole (paperwork, spread, etc was checked earlier in the week by trooper, good guy). So this gal hit the jackpot.....she got to check a fresh kill for sex, waste, spread, got to check all of my stuff (again) and got to sniff around looking for camping no no's and this vegetation cutting BS that is now on the radar, boat registrations, booze breath (luckily I had just mixed up the celebratory bloody mary's), The only thing she could comment on was the cut boughs etc. That, and asking if I thought I had notched my filled harvest ticket enough (rhetorical). When she asked to see my three day old kill site I said "Sure, but you walk in first " the last thing I wish to do is take a good hard look at a three day old gutpile a few hundred yards from the water in one of the world's biggest sockeye producing systems......um, no thank you. She declined.

    Anyhoo, back to the point, doesn't sound like your lean to is a big whoop, but if you are anywhere near a major body of water, I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't contacted by some kind of park staff, and most of that area has plenty of dead spruce to use for whatever you need.
    Does these park rangers go around by heli's? We have been looking at camping in the valleys north of Chakachamna Lake. That area looks and sounds very remote and off the grid. Are there many hunters, and tourists going through that region? (not including winter skiing which i know there are a few of).

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norvegr View Post
    Does these park rangers go around by heli's? We have been looking at camping in the valleys north of Chakachamna Lake. That area looks and sounds very remote and off the grid. Are there many hunters, and tourists going through that region? (not including winter skiing which i know there are a few of).
    Helicopters, Cubs on tundra tires or floats, inflatable kayaks, rafts, atv's, etc. etc.

    I've had very few sour interactions with rangers (State or Fed) out "there", however I've been amazed more than a few times at how they seem to appear out of nowhere.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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  4. #24
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    The federal land SE is 14 days then must move at least one half of a mike for new camp. Can't reuse old camp for 90 days.Make sure outhouse is far enough away from water.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    The federal land SE is 14 days then must move at least one half of a mike for new camp. Can't reuse old camp for 90 days.Make sure outhouse is far enough away from water.
    I know that many Federal lands have superintendent's orders which limit camping to 14 or 21 days but I can't find anything in Title 36 of the CFRs which states anything about camping limits. Does anyone know if there is any system wide Department of Interior rule on capmping limits, our is this set at every unit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    The federal land SE is 14 days then must move at least one half of a mike for new camp. Can't reuse old camp for 90 days.Make sure outhouse is far enough away from water.
    Are there any maps or so showing what is federal lands available on the web?

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    The area inwhich is migth be going to is titled "undesignated State Land", which rules and laws runs for that kind of lands?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norvegr View Post
    Are there any maps or so showing what is federal lands available on the web?
    Link to BLM spatial database

    Open above link then click on the link with the words "map interface" and it will open up to a state wide GIS map. It shows only lands that had some kind of federal action: native allotments, ANCSA corporation, BLM, State, National Park Service, etc. You have to select the various layers to get anything useful. The "generalized land status" layer is very useful for wide scale review of land ownership. When you zoom in enough you need to turn on which quad map series you want to be under the data layers. 1:63360 is the most detailed on this system.

  9. #29
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    While the area is fairly remote, there is some occasional traffic. There might be geologists studying the thermal water under Mt. Spurr or an iron ore deposit somewhere over there.

    There is a good chance that you will never see more than an overhead airplane. The spruce bark beetles left tons of dead trees, both standing and fallen. Can be crappy to travel some of those areas with all the downed trees. You should be fine to cut all the dead ones that you want. Most of the land is state land, with some ANCSA (native corporations) plots in the area.

    I would love to hear your plans. That is a tough chunk of country to travel to. If you do this, let us know how everything turned out. Best carry some bear medicine! }:>

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  10. #30
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    Thanks, that was some very helpful information. How far into Chakachamna did you go? Our plan is to fly in and land near the outcome of Chilligan river, since i've heard that walking into the lake take you through some tough flat riverlands with dense vegetation (i guess that's where you've taken that picture). Some maps show a cabin on the eastern side of the Chilligan river exit to Chakachamna, not sure how much activity are there during summer?

    And by the way when i am asking, which air taxi would take you to Chakachamna Lake the cheapest? Alternative cheap ways to get to Chakachamna lake without having to walk into it? We will also plan a pickup from the same location, or a different location depending on how far we will be moving.

    From what i've read me into the iron ore deposits are located in the upper Chilligan river, withinn the National Park(?)

    We'll be carrying some bear medicine, the population seemed to be dense there, mostly black bears but also grizzly. And i guess they aren't very used to people in their woods, so the black bear might be very interesting to take a visit of pure curiosity! Did you encounter anyone in the region?

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    If it's state land as you said, you have to move at least 2 miles every 14 days. See weblink for Generally Allowed Uses on State Land.

    http://dnr.alaska.gov/mlw/factsht/gen_allow_use.pdf

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norvegr View Post
    How far into Chakachamna did you go?

    And by the way when i am asking, which air taxi would take you to Chakachamna Lake the cheapest? Alternative cheap ways to get to Chakachamna lake without having to walk into it?

    From what i've read me into the iron ore deposits are located in the upper Chilligan river, withinn the National Park(?)
    Did you encounter anyone in the region?
    I have yet to make it to the lake. It is very rough country with alders so thick you can't see 10 feet and boulders everywhere. I need to do another spring flyover and GPS some of the old trails that are overgrown. I did see an old vehicle carcass on one of the trails, so I know if I can get on one I am good to go. I have spent days looking from the ground and have not found the trail.

    I would give Rusts Flying Service a call for pricing. Then compare that to some service out of Kenai. Never flew commercial into the area so no definitive answer as to costs. Walking is out. Never heard of anybody trying to boat into the area, but may be possible. It would require crossing Cook Inlet in a river boat. Something I have done, but no more than I have to.

    I have never seen a person in the area. Some flyovers once in a great while. I did find a fuel cache on a grave bar. I think they were hauled in by snowmachine. They had been there for a long time and still full of fuel.

    I don't think I would worry too much about moving camp. If someone flies in and tells you to move, then ok. For being relatively close to Anchorage, it is pretty remote country. I have seen some nice brownies along the river.
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  13. #33
    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Also, you can see in my earlier picture the amount of spruce dead on the stump. There are more tipped over that are a bear to walk thru. }:>
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    That is quite a machine, bullbuster! Maybe I could trade in my Corolla for one of those...

    No cutting trees on state lands. Those are public trees, and I doubt there's a permit for your use of them. If it's dead and down, it's usable for firewood, and you probably wouldn't have anyone object, but that doesn't sound like what you're looking for. The "generally allowed uses" page has all the info on what you can do out there.

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    Lots of cabins out there that are not frowned upon, make it nice and leave door unlocked and accessible to others that wish to use it plus like stated you could be looking at fines so that is going to be a risk. You may try to get a permit/ try to make a deal with forest service. If you do cut trees they are suppose to be windfall or dead standing. Lots of grey area.

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    Dear Norvegr, The area you are talking about doesn't have trees. I have spent a lot of time in the Tordillos north of Chakamna. Most of those canyons are narrow and glaciated. If you go to the east side you are looking into the Susitna Valley and to the west you are at the headwaters of the Kuskokwim. The slopes on either side do have trees. The eastern side are owned by the Tyonek Natives and Federal and State lands, with almost no private lands in that area. The west side is a little more less controlled with the majority being State land and then Federal. Your lean to idea would work great between October and April but after that you can't carry enough bug spray to keep the bugs away so your only option is a tent. Not sure what you are planning to do in those mountains, the caribou are sparse, sheep and bear you have to have a registered guide to hunt unless you are a resident or kin to a resident that hunts with you, moose don't like glaciated canyons that much. I wouldn't waste my time building anything if I were only going to be there for a month or two. I would be too busy exploring and climbing those impressive moutains and valleys. And if you really want an adventure search youtube for a kayak group that shot the Chakachatna gorge. That will humble you and help you realize just how vast and amazing Alaska is. And remember, travel lite to see the sights. Trek On!

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyrivermaniac View Post
    ...caribou are sparse, sheep and bear you have to have a registered guide to hunt unless you are a resident or kin to a resident that hunts with you, moose don't like glaciated canyons that much...
    He's a nonresident alien, and as such would need a Registered Guide in order to hunt any species of big game anywhere in Alaska.

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    Good catch Mike. I guess we don't want to get these guys arrested and have them staying here as our guests and paying for it do we? I should just say to anyone not familiar with the climate and terrain in Alaska it would be good to hire a guide for all your hunting needs. I know the area the Norwegion is looking at and it is not one of the most accessible or easiest areas to be in under any circumstance. I guess I would recommend heading east to St. Elias Wrangell country as it is more comonly visited or maybe even further south to Lake Clark Katmai area. Pretty much Alaska is a hug wilderness but that doesn't mean you have to go to an area so remote you might not see anyone for a few months.

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    Thanks a lot for those helpful replies, its great to hear from someone who has been into that area. What we would like is a (more or less) unexplored area, not too far from Anchorage due to the costs, narrow valleys and mountains would be perfect. Hunting options isn't much of a concern since we're not allowed to hunt anything in that time period anyway, but we would like to do fishing if possible, but we won't base our food stock on any catch.

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    Also, i have a few more questions. We do have a satellite phone, so once a week we will call a friend and he will give us a weather forecast for the next 7 days. Which online forecast do you guys recommend the most for Alaskan weather?

    Is radio a possibility? How's the reception far into the wild in mountainous areas?

    We're planning to buy a shotgun in Anchorage, where we will be staying for three days before we head into the Tordrillos. Are there any rule on visitors buying a gun in Alaska? I've heard some states have a "three day rule", where you cannot buy a weapon no sooner than three days upon arrival.

    Recommended places in Anchorage to buy a cheap shotgun (used or new) with additional ammunition?

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