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Thread: General/random question thread about canoes for noobs.

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    Default General/random question thread about canoes for noobs.

    First I want to say thank you for all the knowledge I've gained here from you guys. I've been searching and digging up old threads and thought it might be simpler to just create a random topic thread that can be off topic. But a source of lots of different canoe topics?

    Mods if you think this is stupid or redundant please close thread.

    So you guys have probably figured out I'm looking at a canoe. I mainly want one to offset gas costs of running bigger motors. I'm on the yukon so I got a big river to cross but there are plenty sloughs and smaller rivers I could get into. In my search I'm seeing wine bottle or glass hulls, flat bottom canoes, etc. for hunting purposes what style would be best? I'd like to check set net as well but not to sure about that task yet.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    The main factor is how much are you going to spend on the rig. I can do a lot with my 16' Coleman and 3 1/2hp merc with side mount. It can go up the Stikine river or cross from Wrangell to other islands of the inside passage. I can drag it a mile across muskeg to small lakes or streams and not hurt it. I can put on my handmade pontoons and pull a net. It does it all but nothing perfect,I also have a 14' lund with 20hp merc that does most of the things better than the Coleman. Put the two together I can do anything I want very well.The Coleman sucks for nice paddling but you can do it and it oilcans bad at higher speed with motor but I do it. Sure I would love to have a five thousand dollar rig over my thousand dollar rig but at 66 I can't justify it.
    Bottom line how much you going to spend now.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Default what'rya lookin' for?

    YC, no worries about similarities to past discussion. Your needs are different and also boat times keep changing. You ask what's best, and of course the answer is there is no one "best". Different canoes do different things well/better than others.

    One biggie is what type of motor you're going to strap onto it. I'm starting to think that the best hull for a surface drive is not at all the best hull for an OB. And ditto for stability, and also paddle-ability. Also, I don't think people understand the large difference in boat size/weight/capacity gained by just adding 2 feet onto that 17 footer. Also size/width of transom varies wildly among different canoe designs.

    Maybe a good place to start looking for the right canoe is to start with capacity. Say you want/need to carry close to 2,000 pounds at times. That would land you in the territory of my canoe, a Scott Albany 19', with outboard and a lift for the motor to better handle the shallows.

    Or maybe you decide that you want all that, plus you want to worry less about running aground in the shallows than I have to (and you have some more moola that I have put in) then maybe you'd want a 19 or 20 footer, with a uhmw-reinforced hull powered by a surface drive motor like you see Mainer use - and he's a dealer for those motors in Alaska too.

    Or maybe you want less, because you want to single-handedly pull yourself up and over anything, and invest almost nothing. Maybe you'd want to get a cheap Scanoe and 2 hp motor. Myself I wouldn't be caught dead in this last setup except at some little day-sail-lake within view of the truck. [Whoops, Will, I just read your post; we typed at the same time. No offense about scanoes, ok? It just isn't me.]

    Anyway YC, just state a few of the things you need your rig to do. Like maybe:
    - travel a few hundred Yukon miles safely
    - carry at least X,XXX pounds
    - travel min 15 MPH at cruise
    - float in 3 inches and power along in 5 inches water depth
    - be able to happen occasional 4-5 foot waves without much fear of capsize
    - have internal sponsons in case of taking on water
    - have electric start?
    - carry X people with hunting gear and camp
    - cost a max of xxx, out the door in ANC or FAI
    - need to acquire this boat and motor by MM/yyyy

    Those are just some thoughts about areas where you might want to specify what you want/need. Lots of people on here to help discuss what boat might fit your bill, especially this time of year.

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    Thanks. I honestly have no idea. I do know that federal hunting land is about an hour to hour and half boat ride depending on motor. Neither section is on the yukon so my yukon main channel exposure would be minimal. One section I would need to cross the yukon to get in the innoko (preferred area of hunting).
    Right now I'll probably be myself. Children are to small and wife has no interest in going out at the moment. I'd like to be able to haul a moose out and I'd be ok with two trips. Cost is my main concern. I'm in the bush so cost to get it here almost doubles cost of set up. My job is dictated by student numbers. I'd like to stay where I'm at, but if job is cut, then I'll have to leave.

    I like amigowill's suggestion. Different set ups for different things. Canoe would be starter. The cost surprised me for the canoe I'd like to get.
    My budget? Like to stay under $3k (like way under if possible so that I could put rest towards what I really want). I can get a 16' Jon ith 35 hp and trailer for close to my budget (including shipping) but I want a canoe for the fuel efficiency.
    Some students told me I could borrow their canoe with small motor this summer and I may just do that. I will be heading south to bring our vehicle up. So I've been thinking if looking for a canoe or motor in lower 48 and bringing it back up with us. But only if it's a very good deal.

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    I'd like a canoe that I could portage by myself. Won't be a whole lot of portaging though. I'd like to paddle down some shallow sloughs which I have poled a Jon boat through. I also found myself limited last year because of gas.

    Motor? I'm wanting to have two. Smaller 2-3.5 and a 5-9hp for heavier duties. Still on fence about 2 or 4 stroke. Maybe one of each?

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    Does anyone use an electric trolling motor?

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Thats not a bad two person canoe and the motor should last a couple anyway..I would not go electric but some use them,batteries can be spendy.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Go crazy looking at cheaper options
    http://directboats.com/canoes.html
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Go crazy looking at cheaper options
    http://directboats.com/canoes.html

    Yeah. I just to figure out how to calculate extra fuel costs if I buy from lower 48.

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    Electric motor would be more for backup. Then again paddles are efficient back ups.

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    Default elec motors and freighter on CL

    I've putt putted about with an old electric troller motor. My canoe went 3 or 4 mph I think. I like that it was 100% silent. I was using it to hunt an island silently at daybreak; worked like a charm. I used two Deep cycle - one at a time - with manual meter showing capacity left. My canoe doesn't paddle well so running out of juice wasn't an option.

    I never found out what the range was since I had my OB also, and used it alone most of the time.

    Also, YC, about finding a canoe on CL, do know that they are rare in Anchorage. If you've a preference for longer than 17 or so feet, there have only been a very few of those on CL over the past many years combined. If you find a nice large freighter canoe on CL take a good look but look quickly because it'll go fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    I've putt putted about with an old electric troller motor. My canoe went 3 or 4 mph I think. I like that it was 100% silent. I was using it to hunt an island silently at daybreak; worked like a charm. I used two Deep cycle - one at a time - with manual meter showing capacity left. My canoe doesn't paddle well so running out of juice wasn't an option.

    I never found out what the range was since I had my OB also, and used it alone most of the time.

    Also, YC, about finding a canoe on CL, do know that they are rare in Anchorage. If you've a preference for longer than 17 or so feet, there have only been a very few of those on CL over the past many years combined. If you find a nice large freighter canoe on CL take a good look but look quickly because it'll go fast.
    Yeah. That is one thing I've noticed. The pickings up here are slim. Which made me think about looking down south and bringing it up with me. We are heading south this summer to see parents (so they can spend time with the kids).

    The he electric motor would be for silent snooping. Lol. I was also thinking if I couldn't find a sq stern maybe mount the outboard on one side and the small electric on the other side.
    But that might not work.

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    I am going to represent the canoe advice from the Non-motorized crowd! I think some things are universal so I am posting it.

    Important things to consider in my opinion
    ~materials-plastics are more durable but heavier, fiberglass/Kevlar is much lighter but more vulnerable to breaking. As a purist, I won't even chat about aluminum....
    ~size/capacity-think about the times you will be most loaded and times you will be alone with no load. The closer to capacity you get, the less freeboard you have, and this can limit the places you take the fully loaded canoe (less safe on larger lakes, big rivers). and an empty unloaded canoe handles differently as well., especially in the wind.
    ~hull design-rocker is how much the bow/stern is lifted above the middle. The more rocker, the more it wants to turn. This is great for whitewater. A straight hull is preferable for flatwater. The bottom of the canoe can be round, flat, V-bottomed, keeled. These designs affect maneuverability and stability of the canoe. A keel helps you track straight, but can push you around in river currents. Flat bottomed canoes paddle like pigs, they feel stable when you step in (primary stability) but as soon as you tip it a smidge it wants to keep going over (poor secondary stability). Round bottomed canoes feel real tippy when you step in, but usually have excellent secondary stability (assuming the sides or Chines are not too straight-up). V bottomed hulls have horrible primary stability, but secondary stability is good. They do have the advantage of the V helping the boat track similar to a keel.

    That's all I have for now!

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I like this one from kanoe people
    http://www.clippercanoes.com/boat_sp...p?model_id=136
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    How simple is it to remove the canoe motor? There will be times that I just want to paddle and not use the motor. The motor will be mainly for those days that I don't have a lot of time (after school) and am mainly hunting. Weekend hunts the motor is going to be used to get me to my spot...then I can paddle. Motor will be used to get me back to the village.

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    Sportspal. I have done a lot of things to one and it still floats. I recently bought a 16 square back and plan to put a motor on it.


    Ron
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science"

    Edwin Hubble

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrassLakeRon View Post
    Sportspal. I have done a lot of things to one and it still floats. I recently bought a 16 square back and plan to put a motor on it.


    Ron
    What is the black thing on the side? Extra stability?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post
    How simple is it to remove the canoe motor? There will be times that I just want to paddle and not use the motor. The motor will be mainly for those days that I don't have a lot of time (after school) and am mainly hunting. Weekend hunts the motor is going to be used to get me to my spot...then I can paddle. Motor will be used to get me back to the village.
    In most cases, it is very simple. Just loosen two clamps and lift off. The smaller the motor, the easier to do just purely due to less weight to lift. We run 15hp 2-stroke motors all the time and they are pretty quick to get on/off if we want to. They weight in around 75 or 85 pounds I think. Smaller motors just make things that much easier. I think others have said it already, a 4-stroke motor is typically significantly heavier than a 2-stroke for the same hp. There are definitely some tradeoffs either way, but weight on a canoe is a big one for me, especially when you are hanging it off the back end where you already have most of the weight (you) located. A motor hanging off the back end is like a weight on the far end of a big lever arm. Wouldn't make much difference if the motor was in the middle of the boat, but gets much more significant the further from center you get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    In most cases, it is very simple. Just loosen two clamps and lift off. The smaller the motor, the easier to do just purely due to less weight to lift. We run 15hp 2-stroke motors all the time and they are pretty quick to get on/off if we want to. They weight in around 75 or 85 pounds I think. Smaller motors just make things that much easier. I think others have said it already, a 4-stroke motor is typically significantly heavier than a 2-stroke for the same hp. There are definitely some tradeoffs either way, but weight on a canoe is a big one for me, especially when you are hanging it off the back end where you already have most of the weight (you) located. A motor hanging off the back end is like a weight on the far end of a big lever arm. Wouldn't make much difference if the motor was in the middle of the boat, but gets much more significant the further from center you get.
    I pretty much have decided I want a 2 stroke for the canoe. The weight difference is what has made up my mind. THe other option is to go with a smaller motor, which would add more time to travel, but if I'm not in a hurry, what's the big deal right?

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