Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31

Thread: Broadhead accuracy

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    92

    Default Broadhead accuracy

    So what's the real deal with broadhead accuracy? My broadheads all hit the target higher than my field tips. My groups are tight with any tip or blade, even touching a lot of the times at 20 yards. The problem is vertical distance between different points. At 30 yards, my broadheads are 2 to 3 inches above my field points. I can reduce that 2-3 inch distance a little bit by using broadheads with smaller cutting diameters, but I'd like to stay with a 1 1/8" cutting blade. I moved my nocking point up 1/8". I had to readjust my pins, but I still have that same 2-3 inches between practice tips and hunting blades. Is this normal when going to larger cutting diameters?

  2. #2
    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    4,925

    Default

    That is common. You will only hear a couple say there FT and BH hit the same place without moving the sight. Don't worry your pins are good All you should have to do is make up or down corrections and sometimes left or right.

    One one of my bows I have to alighn the BH with the vanes and I get good flight out of them. Also Some times if they are hitting way off the mark I roate the vanes so I have a differnt vane facing down (spinning the arrow). Each bow is differnt and so is each BH to Arrow. Thsi will take some time but not much to get the hitting where you want it to.

    Another bow I have all I have to do is screw the BH and shoot it and it's fine.
    This bow I just had to make a mico adjustment
    Living the Alaskan Dream
    Gary Keller
    Anchorage, AK

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    92

    Default

    I spun my arrows from "cock feather left" to "cock feather up" and the FT to BH distance closed to 1 1/2" with the BH hitting dead center at 15, 30, & 45 yds. Now, I'm gonna try switching to my hunting BH with a 1 1/8" cut. It may sound like I'm splittin' hairs here, but I like tinkering with my bow. Thanks for the help AG.

  4. #4
    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    4,925

    Default

    I like doing the same. I had me arrows last night hitting the X ring at 50 yards but I wanted to paper tune it just for gee wizz. Found out I was tearing high so I had to move my knock. Got that fixed but it threw my pins so now I'm working on it now.
    Living the Alaskan Dream
    Gary Keller
    Anchorage, AK

  5. #5
    Member NDTerminator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Devils Lake ND
    Posts
    262

    Default

    It's extremely rare that a bow tunes out to put broadheads and practice point to the same POI. The longer ferrule of a broadhead changes the Forward Of Center % (FOC) and decreases the spine while the blades are acting to steer it the same as your vanes.

    Here are a couple thing you can do that will help. It can be a lot more in depth than this, I'm illustrating the method for the average Joe who, unlike an old fart like me, hasn't been tinkering with bows since before they had wheels...

    First, make sure your eccentrics are in time and your bow is paper tuned. A bullethole is the goal. A bullethole can almost always be achieved with careful tuning, but sometimes not. If this is the case, a horizontal tear of less than 1/2" is acceptable. I never settle for less than a perfect high/low nock tear, though.

    Use an arrow spined to the heavy end of the recommendation for your setup.

    Use helical, not straight, fletching.

    Square your arrow before installing the insert using a G5 tool.

    Use a short ferrule broadhead. The longer the ferrule, the farther out your arrow's Forward Of Center % (FOC) is moved and the arrow's spine is normally decreased.

    If your inserts are all ready glued in (with carbons) assemble several broadheads and try them on your shafts by spinning. If you see wobble, try another broadhead. Your goal is arows that spin as true as your practice points. When you get a true combo, number or mark the broadhead and arrow.

    Better yet is to glue your inserts in yourself and turn them a couple turns when you seat them. Now try a broadhead; if it doesn't spin true, leave it in and turn the insert 1/4 turn, spin it again. Usually the broadhead will true up in 1/4-1/2 turn. number or mark that broadhead/arrow, carefully take the broadhead off w/o moving the insert, and let the epoxy set up.

    You can do the same thing with aluminium arrows, and it's way easier because of the use of hot melt glue. Follow the same steps, you'll just have to heat the shaft a touch each time to turn the insert. This is probably the one advantage aluminium shafts have over carbons.

    If you do all these things and the stars are aligned correctly, you may get duplicate POI. If nothing else, your broadhead accuracy will be much better & consistent.

    My wife has two compounds and I have three; her's are Matthews and mine are Reflex's. Of those five bows we each have one that duplicates POI. All are tuned to my specs, so it's just a matter of variables that prevent the others from duplicating.

    What I do with the others is use a sight utilizing a removable bracket system (I ike the Archers Choice Pro Archer) and buy two for each bow. I sight one in with practice points and the other with broadheads. When it's time to hunt, it takes just a few seconds to swap sights...

  6. #6
    Member Joel Zadvorney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Buffalo New York
    Posts
    49

    Default

    I use the NAP nitrons and there is no difference between field points and the broad head. I understand your point NDT about changing the % FOC. The muzzys I used to use were 3 inches high and 2 inches to the left. Look for a low profile broadhead with the cutting diameter you disire. I wish the mail order catalogs would sell variety packs. Instead of three heads that don't work you might find one that does and order more. The bow shop near my house sells singles and that is how I found a broadhead that finally worked. Tight point shuttle head has the cutting diameter you are looking for, as do the NAP.

    Good luck, Joel

  7. #7
    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    4,925

    Default

    Another thing I have done is gone to the hardware store and bought these small rubber washers. I put the on between the BH and the arrow the allows me to rotate the BH and get it in alighn with the vanes.
    Once you figure you bow and BH out it will become simple. It's trail by error until you find out what works for you
    Living the Alaskan Dream
    Gary Keller
    Anchorage, AK

  8. #8
    Member NDTerminator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Devils Lake ND
    Posts
    262

    Default

    Yep, the Nitrons and it's clones by & large fly & tune extremely well and I'm really a fan of that design. My wife & I used the non-replacable blade Terminator2's to bump off two P&Y bucks last season (her 5 point grossed 150, my 4 point 138 & change) as well as several does. Very nice little broadhead that doesn't cost an arm & a leg. Liked em' so well, I cleaned out Wal Marts in two towns when they were clearing out the hunting stuff post-season. Paid $5.00-$7.00 a 3 pack, where the pro shops were selling them for $16.00.

    I've heard nothing but great things about the Shuttle T's, I just refuse to pay that much for a pack of broadheads. Same with the G5 Montec, great broadhead, grossly over-priced, IMO. If you're a fan of two blade cut on contacts (which I am), the Magnus Stingers are tough to beat.

    I too experimented with Muzzy's several times since they came out in the 80's, and I was never able to achieve consistent & acceptable flight. When they first came out, the blades were about as sharp and as easy to sharpen as K-Mart butter knives, as well. The blades are great now, but I still can't get decent flight out of them even if I tune the bow for them. Hell if I can figure out why...

    Alaska Gray's point in regard to broadhead washers is well taken. I always have some that are made for that purpose in my tackle box.

    BTW, that G5 tool is something every archer who builds his own arrows should have in his tackle box. After you cut your shaft, just a couple turns on the tool squares up the end and it's ready for the insert. If you want to go a step further, you can use it to square up your insert after it's installed on the shaft. Works for both carbon & aluminiums...

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    92

    Default

    I tried to stay away from name brands in my original post, but... here we go. Muzzy 4-blade 90 grains have always been my BH of choice, however, I've only hunted whitetalis and pigs until lately. Now I'm stationed in Alaska and I wanted to go to a slightly heavier BH with a larger cut and stronger ferrule. So, I'm trying to get my bow dialed in with either 100 or 125 grain 3-blade Interlocks.

    I'm getting a little better groups with some of these ideas. It seems that the notion of larger cut diameters = larger groups and that is what I wanted to know.

    One more question though. What does everyone here think is an acceptable group at say 20, 30, 40, and 50 yards?

  10. #10
    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    4,925

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KWP View Post

    One more question though. What does everyone here think is an acceptable group at say 20, 30, 40, and 50 yards?

    For me at 20,30 it's hiting the white ring on a 5 spot. 40 and 50 it's the next ring out from the white spot.
    Living the Alaskan Dream
    Gary Keller
    Anchorage, AK

  11. #11
    Member NDTerminator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Devils Lake ND
    Posts
    262

    Default

    I don't measure group size per se. My standard is an 8" circle, which is roughly the size of the 10 ring on a McKenzie Medium Deer/slightly smaller than a pie tin. When you reach the distance where you can't keep 4 of 5 arrows inside that ring on demand, you are at your max effective hunting range.

    That being said, given today's gear, if shooting a compound with sights a person really should have no problem keeping 3-5 arrows in a group you can pull all at once with one hand from 30 yards and in.

    The catch, of course, is to be able to do this on live critters when hunting. The darn things have a tendency to move, hang out in arrow defecting cover, jump the string, etc. Mighty inconsiderate of them if you ask me...

  12. #12
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    89

    Default It's not rare at all.

    It's actually quite easy to do. All a fixed blade really amounts to is surface area. If you have an ill direction of an arrow coming out of the bow it will influence it and cause the arrow to plane to a different POI. The larger the surface area (Head) the more it wll plane.

    If you're heads are grouping high then you arrow is coming out tail low. This could be several things, to stiff in spine, to weak of srping tension on the rest, poor timing or best case low nock point. If raising the nock point doesnt solve it I would look to the rest first then spine.

    It's not hard to get even the largest of heads like the big Snuffers to shoot to the same POI as field tips given that the set up is correct. Pretty much all the bowhunters I associate with have no difficulty what so ever.

    Paper tuning is a good place to start but it's not the end all. Download the easton tuning guide from the Easton website and go through the broadhead tuning section.

    I hunt with non-vented two blades a lot. Even though I'm shooting a relatively fast compound I don't have problems with them shooting with field tips out to 50 yards, some guy's will tell you that is impossible but don't let them pass their limitations on to you.

    At first broadhead tuning may seem like a lot to do but the more you do it the easier it becomes. Nowadays when I set up a bow it takes usually less than five minutes to get this result.

  13. #13
    Member Raven1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Chugiak Alaska
    Posts
    53

    Default Broadhead tuning

    Getting your broadheads tuned is a 3-4 step process-
    (Luckily, fooling with bows and arrows is fun)

    1- Get the broadhead blades to line up with your vanes. You can do this by
    a) first- fletch the arrows, second- glue the inserts in (with broadheads in them) so they line up
    or
    b) first- glue the inserts in, second- screw the broadheads in, third- fletch the arrows so the vanes line up with the blades.

    2- Get the arrows with broadheads to group together.
    (Even if your 3-5 arrows with broadheads don't fly to the same place, each arrow/broadhead should fly consistently)
    a) Pick the broadhead/arrow which flies closest to your field point group as the 'standard'.
    b) Now 'nock tune' the others until they fly with the 'standard.'
    Nock tuning means twisting the nock to experiment with which vane is to be the 'cock' vane. There will be 3 possibilities for which vane is the cock vane; one of them should fly close to the standard. If none do, reject that arrow. In time, you will get 3 or 5 arrows to fly together.

    3- Get the broadhead group to move to the same point of impact as the field point group.
    -If the broadhead group is to the left of the field point group, move the rest to the right. You move the rest in the direction you want the broadhead group to move.
    -Move the rest only a little bit at a time, until the groups fly to the same place
    -If you need to move the broadheads down to get them to the field points, move the rest down, a little bit at a time, until the groups are together.

    4- Adjust your sights so you hit the "x".

    How much work this process takes depends upon how consistent the spine in your arrows is. If you have arrows which have equal stiffness no matter which way they flex (360 degree spine consistency) the job is pretty quick and easy. If your arrows have uneven spines, the job is a pain, and you may have to go through 7-10 or more arrows to get 5 to fly well enough to hunt with.
    -I am currently in the painful process of switching to Carbon Express arrows ($$$$ ouch); their Maxima arrows in particular have extremely consistent spines.
    Sadly, good arrows are expensive, and not all expensive arrows are good.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Eagle River<AK
    Posts
    285

    Default broadheads

    Since others have mentioned a few brands I will do the same. Give Slick Tricks a try. They are all steel, fly right with fieldpoints to 60 yards and more and leave masive holes. Many using them indicate that after killing an animal with one that they merely touch up the blades as they are TOUGH and look as if they weren't shot. I have only killed one deer with one but afterwards I had to examine the head with a magnifying glass to look for blood stains as it looked just like all of the others in my quiver. If you don't find them satisfactory in any way (including accuracy) Gary will refund your $ with no questions asked. www.Slicktricks.net

  15. #15

    Default

    Bottom line if your broadheads dont hit where your FP's do your bow is out of Tune. If you are hitting hig or low you need to adjust your nock 1/32" up or down to correct this. If your right left its in your rest, 1/32" at a time. You should never have to adjust your sights to hit broadheads where FP's do. Go to the easton website and Download their tuning manual and read up, also check out www.archerytalk.com under the general information section and read up. You will see it is not as hard as you think to tune a bow and get these arrows shooting straight! good luck.
    Steve

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Deep in Hllary country NY
    Posts
    446

    Wink Get a second sight!

    If you target shoot, 3D, etc. get a second sight. First paper tune you bow. What your describing is normal, with broadheads you have put wings on the front of your arrows! The higher speed your setup shoots the more trouble you will have. You should decide what the bow is for, and go from there.
    ; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed. 1 SAMUEL 2;30

  17. #17
    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    4,925

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenJ View Post
    Bottom line if your broadheads dont hit where your
    I would have to disagree. My bow is fine tuned and still have to make small adjustments from time to time. I have gotten two BH to fly like FP, but for the most part I had to make minor adjustments.
    Living the Alaskan Dream
    Gary Keller
    Anchorage, AK

  18. #18
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    89

    Default What?

    I would have to agree with StevenJ. If you're bow is so fine tuned and it does not shoot both the same just what the hell is the measure of you're fine tune, two turns of the wrench and spit on it?

  19. #19
    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    4,925

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bowshop Monkey View Post
    I would have to agree with StevenJ. If you're bow is so fine tuned and it does not shoot both the same just what the hell is the measure of you're fine tune, two turns of the wrench and spit on it?

    You can have two of the same bow and do the same thing to them and they can either shoot the same which most will do or the will be slight differences in them. I have 2 Q2XL which differences in them. When I shoot same arrow w/BH they will hit different. One will hit the X ring the other will it blue...
    So even after I have all my bows fined tune I still move my sight on one of my bows...

    This has been a big debate for many many years now.
    Living the Alaskan Dream
    Gary Keller
    Anchorage, AK

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Kenai
    Posts
    1,888

    Default

    The solution of course is quite simple.
    Only shoot broadheads
    Now the real question is how do I get my Judo's to hit the same place my Wensel Woodsman broadheads hit with my longbow?
    Vance in AK.

    Matthew 6:33
    "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •