Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26

Thread: CCI 200 miss fire

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    kenai
    Posts
    175

    Default CCI 200 miss fire

    Ok went to the range today to try some loads for my kimber 30-06. All loads had CCI 200 large rifle primers in them I had five miss fire. 2 of the miss fire went off on the second try the other three would not fire at all I tried many times . I shot around 50 rounds today and all others were no problem. I have never had any problems with miss fire from these primersbefore. The primer have been kept dry inside ever since I bought them. They are however almost 3yrs old which should not be a problem I just happen to know that because I wrote the date on them when I got them.

    anyone have any ideas about this? seems like a lot of miss fire from one primer pack.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    4,034

    Default

    Firing pin clean? Sizer set too deep, there is another thread on here which mentions that may cause mis-fire?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Member marshall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Near Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,814

    Default

    A couple of additional possibilities are the primer was not fully seated. Perhaps sludge, sticky gun oil or rust in the bolt, firing pin and spring area slowing down or preventing a full strike.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Juneau, AK
    Posts
    44

    Default

    What does the dents from the firing pin look like?
    Any resent work done to the rifle?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

  5. #5
    Member Music Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    ANC
    Posts
    1,242

    Default

    Crushed primer? Flash hole obstructed? full moon? ghosts? I have used 45yo primers[cci200] with no problems.
    When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.
    '08 24' HCM Granite HD "River Dog"

  6. #6
    Member gunbugs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    1,382

    Default

    Typically, failure to fire is caused by the primer not being seated fully. They should be below flush.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    kenai
    Posts
    175

    Default

    the brass was new nosler brass I am pretty sure the primer was well seated, the gun is new bought last fall new and has had about 60 rounds though it before the miss fire and all of those are handles. the primers of the un-fired rounds had pretty good dents in them more than the rounds that fired normaly.

    for hunting loads this makes me a little unsure of them being dependble

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    312

    Default

    You had misfires because the powder was wet. One thing to note to folks is to be cautious with a misfire#occasionally 2 seconds after a misfire the shell will go off unexpectedly. Had it happen to me personally and as I lowered my .458 from my shoulder the gun suddenly became alive and I took the but of that gun straight to my sweets and I absolutely folded up

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,805

    Default

    I've always considered CCI primers to be the Cream of the Crop. I've used them almost exclusively.

    I can see 1, if it was a primer failure, but not 5. If the primer fired the 2nd time on 2 of them, they were undamaged from the firing pin blow, and I think should indicate the primer not at fault. The problem must be Gun Related.

    I would check the things marshall mentioned in the order he mentioned them.

    I would also suggest the use of a Primer Pocket Uniformer. You only have to use it one time on a case, but you can also use it to clean primer pockets, which works better than anything else I've tried to clean them.

    I think that PPs should cleaned, although many folks don't, and some loading instructions don't even mention it. The reason being, the crud that is left in the PP from previous firings can keep a primer from seating well.

    A PP uniformer will square the edges of the bottom of the pocket, and make the depth uniform. Primers will thereafter seat perfectly and you'll never have to worry about HIGH primers.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Willow/Moose Creek
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
    Typically, failure to fire is caused by the primer not being seated fully. They should be below flush.
    Quote Originally Posted by skipper View Post
    I am pretty sure the primer was well seated. the primers of the un-fired rounds had pretty good dents in them more than the rounds that fired normaly.
    I have very little experience, but what gunbugs says correlates with what you describe. You THINK they were seated and the strikes were deeper.
    Deeper strikes because the primer stuck out farther.
    Your first attempts seated the primer maybe and then allowed to function.
    Good luck and don't loose faith yet.

  11. #11
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Missing Palmer AK in Phonix AZ.
    Posts
    6,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BTK View Post
    I have very little experience, but what gunbugs says correlates with what you describe. You THINK they were seated and the strikes were deeper.
    Deeper strikes because the primer stuck out farther.
    Your first attempts seated the primer maybe and then allowed to function.
    Good luck and don't loose faith yet.
    Well the fired primer strikes being lighter would be normal, when the presure comes up inside the primer it pushes the dent back out.

    It's ether ammo, gun, or some of both . . . Could be primers got oiled but some going on 2nd strike makes that seem unlikely.

    I'd start with primer seating depth. Then I look at the pin, is it protruding enough, is it gunked up, greased up and frozen in the cold, bent, chiped, or somehow not striking hard enough. Then headspace, is the round just moveing away from the pin becouse of headspace? This extra headspace could come from the brass being sized down a bit much or the gun has large chamber or most likley some of both.
    Andy
    On the web= C-lazy-F.co
    Email= Andy@C-lazy-F.co
    Call/Text 602-315-2406
    Phoenix Arizona

  12. #12
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    5,594

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iyouktug View Post
    You had misfires because the powder was wet. One thing to note to folks is to be cautious with a misfire#occasionally 2 seconds after a misfire the shell will go off unexpectedly. Had it happen to me personally and as I lowered my .458 from my shoulder the gun suddenly became alive and I took the but of that gun straight to my sweets and I absolutely folded up
    That's a hangfire, not a misfire. I have had hangfires with CCI 200's with a light powder charge in cold temps. The primers functioned properly, but they weren't not enough to ignite the powder.

    As to misfires, as others have said either every primer wasn't fully seated, or there is something wrong with the bolt to where you aren't getting a consistantly strong primer strike. Occasionally a gun will come from the factory with a weak firing pin spring or a firing pin that doesn't protrude far enough from the bolt and you will get inconsistant primer firings. It would be worth measuring how far the firing pin protrudes from the bolt to at least eliminate that factor. And if you haven't fired all of your handloads, inspect them to see if the primers are all seated to the same depth.
    Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

    If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    kenai
    Posts
    175

    Default

    Ok so I dont think it is the gun or it would be happening more often I would think ? this day that this happen I had already fired about 30 round of hand loads without a problem at all.

    Update So i removed the bullet and powder then de-capped the primers that did not fire. All three looked the same on the fire side as new primers the did not ignite at all no burn makes or anything so I am thinking they are bad primers.
    I would think even if the primer is not all the way seated it would still go off just maybe not ignite the powder.

    anyways thanks for any useful responces

  14. #14
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks Area
    Posts
    7,272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skipper View Post
    I would think even if the primer is not all the way seated it would still go off just maybe not ignite the powder.

    anyways thanks for any useful responces
    Not really,, if they are not fully seated the firing pin will not be able to strike the anvil in the primer hard enough to initiate ignition. The primer is designed so when fully seated the base of the anvil is against the base of the brass, making for a solid area to ignite the primer. If not fully seated much of the energy is lost as the primer slips forward until seated. This is why many that are not fully seated will fire on the second try.
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"
    Founding Member
    http://www.residenthuntersofalaska.org/

  15. #15
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Missing Palmer AK in Phonix AZ.
    Posts
    6,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skipper View Post
    I would think even if the primer is not all the way seated it would still go off just maybe not ignite the powder.
    And you would be thinking incorrectly. Lots of the force of the pin is wasted seating the primer on the first strike, then on next strike primer may be too damaged to light. If it lights it lights, if you get a primer to light it has the same odds of lighting the powder no matter how it is seated.

    If they are properly/fully seated (which I'm not convinced of) next most likley thing is the gun is light striking them. What you discribe if not poorly seated I'd say 95% odds it's the gun light striking. Unless you oil contaminated your primers the odds that they are bad is about like the odds of getting struck by lightning.
    Andy
    On the web= C-lazy-F.co
    Email= Andy@C-lazy-F.co
    Call/Text 602-315-2406
    Phoenix Arizona

  16. #16
    Member marshall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Near Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    Not really,, if they are not fully seated the firing pin will not be able to strike the anvil in the primer hard enough to initiate ignition. The primer is designed so when fully seated the base of the anvil is against the base of the brass, making for a solid area to ignite the primer. If not fully seated much of the energy is lost as the primer slips forward until seated. This is why many that are not fully seated will fire on the second try.
    Stid and Andy in the post after Stid hit it, no pun intended. The strike moves the primer deeper, perhaps even fully seats it. In the process it may fracture the ignition material in the primer between the cup and the anvil. This broken substance may or may not ignite on the next strike regardless of how hard it is hit because the anvil may be touching the cup at this point with no ignition material between them.

    On another note, a buddy of mine that I was with on this years Elk hunt had a failure to fire this past December. He stores his bolt in a pouch fully cocked and has done so since the rifle was new, 1973. In addition to this weakened compressed spring his rifle was wet from the condensation brought on by taking a very cold rifle in and out of a warm trailer the days prior. After examination I found ice in the bolt preventing the firing pin from moving forward. This was his first bull elk hunt and we were truly disappointed at what would have been an easy 80 yard broadside shot.

    Since this disappointment has passed I've replaced his spring with a new slightly stiffer updated carbon steel version and taught him how to de-cock his bolt prior to storage. I leave my bolts in the rifles but he insists on removing his, to each his own...

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    kenai
    Posts
    175

    Default

    ok well thanks for the detailed info I will keep my eye on primer seating

  18. #18

    Default

    How are you resizing your brass? Just enough so it chambers easily or did you screw the die down all the way plus 1/4 turn? I ask because there is a slim chance your brass is undersized for the chamber then when the firing pin hits the primer some of the force is lost as the case is moved forward.
    DO NOT full length resize your brass.

    Did anyone change out the spring in the bolt?

  19. #19
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks Area
    Posts
    7,272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Money Pit View Post
    How are you resizing your brass? Just enough so it chambers easily or did you screw the die down all the way plus 1/4 turn? I ask because there is a slim chance your brass is undersized for the chamber then when the firing pin hits the primer some of the force is lost as the case is moved forward.
    DO NOT full length resize your brass.

    Did anyone change out the spring in the bolt?

    He has a Kimber CRF and I don't believe this is possible "could be wrong" but I believe that with this design the extractor stays locked onto the case rim, unlike a push to feed action, which indeed can result in what you describe.

    I'm a believer in FL resizing for hunting ammo, I just use tools to measure head space and only push the shoulder back .001 to .002 to ensure no jammed rounds when in the field.
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"
    Founding Member
    http://www.residenthuntersofalaska.org/

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    kenai
    Posts
    175

    Default

    the brass was new nosler brass i think I did size it but that is mostly to make sure the neck is round. The resizing after firing the brass is something I need to refine I currently just do it the way the instructions state just because thats the way I have been doing it for a while.

    thanks for the good advise

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •