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Thread: Latest from BOG... Post here if you have news or are there!

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Default Latest from BOG... Post here if you have news or are there!

    So far all I have heard is that at breakfast Ted made it clear that the board intends to "Take no action" on any sheep proposals, deferring to results from the sheep working group.... That isn't even working yet!
    Bear in mind, this is an opinion proffered prior to the meeting even starting, way before department presentations or public testimony.
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    That may be prudent........there is no one proposal that fixes it all....IMO!

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Looks like Department presentations will be over mid afternoon and public testimony will begin. Deadline to sign up to testify is tomorrow (saturday the 15th) at 10:30 am. If anyone can't be there by the deadline and needs a card turned in to testify, pm me and happy to do it.

    Good presentation by David James, our regional supervisor in the interior, about Intensive Management and Predator Control programs and how it affects their budget and what else they can do (or can't do, which was one of the points, things like sheep surveys, density estimates etc).

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Default Latest from BOG... Post here if you have news or are there!

    So IF no action is taken at this meeting, and IF the BOG goes to a three year cycle as they are talking about, it could be three years before we see any action....after three more years of unlimited guide use and open hunts there may no longer be any "problem" left to be solved.

    Kinda makes one wonder if all the lip service the chair gave the legislature about how crucial conservation is and how resident opportunity is important in the decision making process was all horsefeathers.

    I predict a win for the guide industry cloaked under the guise of "we need more information" ... as if there isn't enough.



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    Member Yellowknife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    So IF no action is taken at this meeting, and IF the BOG goes to a three year cycle as they are talking about, it could be three years before we see any action....after three more years of unlimited guide use and open hunts there may no longer be any "problem" left to be solved.
    Not true. If they go to a three year cycle, there would be a transition period and the next Region III would be in the 2016/2017 cycle regardless.

    Yk

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    Dave....I think there is a provision for proposals to be submitted mid-term in cases like this......but I agree, we have a problem here.

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Default Latest from BOG... Post here if you have news or are there!

    There are a couple BOG members up for reappointment this year,... Wonder how much resident outrage it would take to send them packing?


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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    ADFG presentations ran longer than expected, only one member of the public was able to testify before close today. So that will happen tomorrow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    I predict a win for the guide industry cloaked under the guise of "we need more information" ... as if there isn't enough.
    Kinda looks like the only info they need is Heimers'....who of course says there IS no problem....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    ...after three more years of unlimited guide use and open hunts there may no longer be any "problem" left to be solved.
    While some guides might see your doom and gloom prediction as a "win", I doubt all of them will. To be successful, a guide needs trophy animals to hunt/kill. If sheep pops are as bad as some think, then the guides lose as well.
    As far as a "problem" to solve...............isn't the full curl requirement supposed to be it's own harvest control method? Even if all the full curls are killed (I know, your gonna say some illegals are too) that still leaves rams to grow and become full curl in the future. Is that correct?

    If I was a sheep hunter, I would certainly like to see a decrease in non res take. Maybe it is time for that. I'll wish you, Dave, and Mark good luck at the meeting with proposal 44. If what has been said on the various sheep threads on this forum is true, proposals such as yours are not just "allocative". The Dept. should weigh in with support or not!
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    Some very interesting comments,,,

    Dr Frost speaks supporting the bow only season and then opposes the same type of special muzzle loader season on the Haul road and even is against the special youth season "because the parent would shoot" I was surprised the hear this.

    Then the guide says that if they open resident sheep season early he would just "take his family camping or go sheep hunting early himself,, since that is how he feeds his family....

    More after they get back from lunch.
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    Thor Stacey gave powerful testimony,, he is a guide I can support. You could tell he is a guide that understands the current issues and has the sheep and resident hunters best interest in mind.
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    Anything else noteworthy today?

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    Member Roland on the River's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    Thor Stacey gave powerful testimony,, he is a guide I can support. You could tell he is a guide that understands the current issues and has the sheep and resident hunters best interest in mind.
    Could anyone give a brief outline on what he said ?

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland on the River View Post
    Could anyone give a brief outline on what he said ?

    Mr Thor stated that he wants to see average Joe sheep hunters included in the sheep working group. That the sheep working group looks and all the issues and develop a plan and recommendations. Then a plan of allocation, access and resource goals be put into action. It is his wish that the BOG uses the data and recommendations put forth by the working group and develops a management plan and that plan takes into count a concession plan but does not have to really on concessions necessarily, but that they could be utilized into the management plan where they do not exist they have to be accounted for in other ways. He stated that there is still a chance that the concession plan could still be approved and that would be one of the best ways to improve sheep hunting and reduce crowding. He stated that right now we do not know if we have a resource or a management issue,,, but we for a fact know that we have an allocation issue and that the allocation issue is staring us in the face. That there is too many passionate and responsible users stating that there is a problem to continue to ignore the issue. He does not support an early opening for residents, because it would create an opening day stampede and that would further encourage crowding and gives the preconception, that these early days are the only days to be in the field. That it would be a self defeating core complaint of the crowding issue.

    The above is my best translation of what he said, using my recording to translate it here and may not be verbatim of what he said.



    The other testimony went along these lines.....

    I'm paraphrasing here,,, But the guides said that there is no issue other than maybe too many transporters flying in too many residents and that is the causes of the crowding. One said that not all residents are tough enough to hunt sheep and should leave that to those that can... One said that if they open the season early he wil just "go camping or hunt himself" basically publicly stating he will still stake out his area.

    Mark Richards stood tall and DEMANDED that the BOG take action and not kick the can down the road.... The BOG wants to consider, all the data and see what the new working group has to say and also to gather the results of a survey that will be sent out to hunters soon. "or in other words to kick the can down the road".

    Thor Stacey "a guide" was the only guide that also admitted there is an issue and ask the BOG to take action.

    Many resident sheep hunters testified in support of prop 44 and most agree that the average age of sheep being harvested is on the decline and that there is a crowding issue.

    The BOG will start again at 9am I encourage others to listen in,, it is an eye opening experience. Also if you believe in the guide concession program, there is legislation pending, contact Juneau and state your support.

    Steve
    Last edited by stid2677; 02-15-2014 at 21:22.
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    Thank you Very much for the info Stid.

    I can not be at the meeting & this really helps us understand what really is being said.

    There are ALWAYS Jerks like the guy you mentioned that think they are the ONLY ones that should be allowed to hunt sheep. SCR%% Him.

    That's not what Alaska is about That's more of a Californian attitude.

    I will bet you that like several guides he probably came from the lower 48 like a lot of us, but he is A GUIDE so that should put him above the rest of us.

    I have dealt with OVER EGOED people my whole business carreer & it really get tiring hearing their garbage.

    OK my rant is over.

    Again Stid Thanks.
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    Great info. looks like there may already a organization res sheep hunters can join to protect there sheep hunting interests. Since hes the lobbiest for APHA should find where to send out members fees! as always great info Stid.
    wes

    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    Mr Thor stated that he wants to see average Joe sheep hunters included in the sheep working group. That the sheep working group looks and all the issues and develop a plan and recommendations. Then a plan of allocation, access and resource goals be put into action. It is his wish that the BOG uses the data and recommendations put forth by the working group and develops a management plan and that plan takes into count a concession plan but does not have to really on concessions necessarily, but that they could be utilized into the management plan where they do not exist they have to be accounted for in other ways. He stated that there is still a chance that the concession plan could still be approved and that would be one of the best ways to improve sheep hunting and reduce crowding. He stated that right now we do not know if we have a resource or a management issue,,, but we for a fact know that we have an allocation issue and that the allocation issue is staring us in the face. That there is too many passionate and responsible users stating that there is a problem to continue to ignore the issue. He does not support an early opening for residents, because it would create an opening day stampede and that would further encourage crowding and gives the preconception, that these early days are the only days to be in the field. That it would be a self defeating core complaint of the crowding issue.

    The above is my best translation of what he said, using my recording to translate it here and may not be verbatim of what he said.



    The other testimony went along these lines.....

    I'm paraphrasing here,,, But the guides said that there is no issue other than maybe too many transporters flying in too many residents and that is the causes of the crowding. One said that not all residents are tough enough to hunt sheep and should leave that to those that can... One said that if they open the season early he wil just "go camping or hunt himself" basically publicly stating he will still stake out his area.

    Mark Richards stood tall and DEMANDED that the BOG take action and not kick the can down the road.... The BOG wants to consider, all the data and see what the new working group has to say and also to gather the results of a survey that will be sent out to hunters soon. "or in other words to kick the can down the road".

    Thor Stacey "a guide" was the only guide that also admitted there is an issue and ask the BOG to take action.

    Many resident sheep hunters testified in support of prop 44 and most agree that the average age of sheep being harvested is on the decline and that there is a crowding issue.

    The BOG will start again at 9am I encourage others to listen in,, it is an eye opening experience. Also if you believe in the guide concession program, there is legislation pending, contact Juneau and state your support.

    Steve

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wesleyM1990 View Post
    ... looks like there may already a organization res sheep hunters can join to protect there sheep hunting interests....should find where to send our members fees!...
    how about....http://www.alaskabackcountryhunters.org/
    Alaska Board of Game 2015 tour... "Kicking the can down the road"
    http://www.alaskabackcountryhunters.org/

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    Member Roland on the River's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    Mr Thor stated that he wants to see average Joe sheep hunters included in the sheep working group. That the sheep working group looks and all the issues and develop a plan and recommendations. Then a plan of allocation, access and resource goals be put into action. It is his wish that the BOG uses the data and recommendations put forth by the working group and develops a management plan and that plan takes into count a concession plan but does not have to really on concessions necessarily, but that they could be utilized into the management plan where they do not exist they have to be accounted for in other ways. He stated that there is still a chance that the concession plan could still be approved and that would be one of the best ways to improve sheep hunting and reduce crowding. He stated that right now we do not know if we have a resource or a management issue,,, but we for a fact know that we have an allocation issue and that the allocation issue is staring us in the face. That there is too many passionate and responsible users stating that there is a problem to continue to ignore the issue. He does not support an early opening for residents, because it would create an opening day stampede and that would further encourage crowding and gives the preconception, that these early days are the only days to be in the field. That it would be a self defeating core complaint of the crowding issue.

    The above is my best translation of what he said, using my recording to translate it here and may not be verbatim of what he said.



    The other testimony went along these lines.....

    I'm paraphrasing here,,, But the guides said that there is no issue other than maybe too many transporters flying in too many residents and that is the causes of the crowding. One said that not all residents are tough enough to hunt sheep and should leave that to those that can... One said that if they open the season early he wil just "go camping or hunt himself" basically publicly stating he will still stake out his area.

    Mark Richards stood tall and DEMANDED that the BOG take action and not kick the can down the road.... The BOG wants to consider, all the data and see what the new working group has to say and also to gather the results of a survey that will be sent out to hunters soon. "or in other words to kick the can down the road".

    Thor Stacey "a guide" was the only guide that also admitted there is an issue and ask the BOG to take action.

    Many resident sheep hunters testified in support of prop 44 and most agree that the average age of sheep being harvested is on the decline and that there is a crowding issue.

    The BOG will start again at 9am I encourage others to listen in,, it is an eye opening experience. Also if you believe in the guide concession program, there is legislation pending, contact Juneau and state your support.

    Steve
    Thank you Steve for keeping us informed.

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