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Thread: Play'n with the 358win

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    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    Default Play'n with the 358win

    Late yesterday UPS dropped me a box of Barnes 225 TSX's / 35cal and of course I had to load some...
    I worked up 3 loads using A2520 and went out today and fired them up! Lets just say it was not ideal out, 16 degrees with about 8 inches of snow at my range. Chairs were froze down and I had to chop it out with a hatchet. It took about an hour to set up for 12 shots, at least I didn't have to worry about the bbl heating up...
    Barnes rec coal of 2.70 and my Ruger Hawkeye had 2.86 of room to play with.
    I loaded first string of 4 at 44gn/2.76 coal - avg 2220fps
    4 at 45gn/2.74 - avg 2187
    4 at 45.6gn/2.74 - avg 2210
    Deeper seating produced lower velocity. I used a factory crimp die as well with a moderate crimp...
    They all grouped very well at 1 - 1.25in at 100yds and I admit I was not trying too hard as cold as it was! Last test was the most interesting...
    I shot one of the TSX 225's into a 10.5in thick oak log along with a Hornady 250gn RN at 2245fps at 50 yards...
    The Barnes TSX exited and the 250 RN did not. So I sat another 8.5 in log up behind the first as I wanted to look at the TSX and it blew threw both! 19 inches and the exit did not appear the bullet petaled out much if any - geez! I split the log at home and the 250gn RN had went slightly over 8inches and was a blob weighing 213 grains...
    Had some fun and got out, this cold and snow has started to get old, did get a ton of junk outa the basement today though!
    Will be interesting as I have time to get some more speed outa the 225 TSX and see what it will do. Fun start though.
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    ...16 degrees...
    ...above zero


    (-15 here today, but that's up in the hills where it's warmer...)
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    ...above zero


    (-15 here today, but that's up in the hills where it's warmer...)
    I had -15 Thursday morning as I headed out to work - we have pretty much been below 25 for about 2 months with many sub zero nights. Haven't had this kinda cold spell here in a couple decades... Helps us in the lower 48 understand why so many of you chaps go crazy from cabin fever! I mean just take a look at Ole Smitty
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    I mean just take a look at Ole Smitty
    Oh, man, NOBODY wants to see that!
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    If you're getting that kind of penetration and expansion in oak, what do you suppose it's going to do in a deer. Try a Sierra 225 Game King. It should open up better at the 358Win velocities and still not explode. These new super tough bullets are made for the new Uber mags and they seem to like much higher impact velocities to work. I'm shooting a 350Rem using the Sierra 225s at 2800fps. Even that at 100yds + isn't giving the impact velocities needed to use the Barnes. I shoot a 358Norma as well and IMO it doesn't need a super tough bullet either although I use a 250gr with it at 2850. On the other hand maybe I just like things like me. Old and slow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    If you're getting that kind of penetration and expansion in oak, what do you suppose it's going to do in a deer. Try a Sierra 225 Game King. It should open up better at the 358Win velocities and still not explode. These new super tough bullets are made for the new Uber mags and they seem to like much higher impact velocities to work. I'm shooting a 350Rem using the Sierra 225s at 2800fps. Even that at 100yds + isn't giving the impact velocities needed to use the Barnes. I shoot a 358Norma as well and IMO it doesn't need a super tough bullet either although I use a 250gr with it at 2850. On the other hand maybe I just like things like me. Old and slow.
    I was surprised at the penetration myself, heck for all I know that bullet is still going!
    I am working this baby up for a moose load so that kind of penetration without expansion is not all bad as it would help out on bad angles and take out both shoulder's I reckon... I was curious what kind of low end speed it would take to open - but at 50 yards I thought it would do the trick... The Sierra Game King is on the radar as well, if I just wanted a deer load that 250 RN would be an anchor for sure and should be a fine moose load as long as I am careful with shot placement. Seems like all the load data I look at the Sierra 225 has a little more velocity then the 225 Barnes?
    Being an archery hunter I have always liked an entry and exit hole for blood trails so the Barnes going through does not bother me - now if I knock down 3 or 4 bulls with one shot ??? LOL
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Give these bad boys a try in your 358. Extremely accurate in anything I've tried- not just 358, but 35 Rem, 35 Whelen, 357 Herret and 38/357 from a Contender. Cast from #2 Lyman alloy I've had moderate expansion on deer inside 100 yards even loaded less than 2K. If you already have a casting setup, the little extra money for that mould will be the best money you've spent. Lotta cheap practice and fun shooting, even when everyone else is shouting conspiracy and searching for factory bullets.

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    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Give these bad boys a try in your 358. Extremely accurate in anything I've tried- not just 358, but 35 Rem, 35 Whelen, 357 Herret and 38/357 from a Contender. Cast from #2 Lyman alloy I've had moderate expansion on deer inside 100 yards even loaded less than 2K. If you already have a casting setup, the little extra money for that mould will be the best money you've spent. Lotta cheap practice and fun shooting, even when everyone else is shouting conspiracy and searching for factory bullets.
    I have a lead furnace someplace in retirement I can dig out - last time I used it I made jigs and some 41 cal boolits... I think I have a pile of lead scraps also - someplace - ya know in that place we all put things so we won't lose them?
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    On a side note I see Hornady has dropped the 35 cal 250gn RN bullets from its line...
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    On a side note I see Hornady has dropped the 35 cal 250gn RN bullets from its line...
    Dropped as in "Gone forever." or as in "not making them again for a while"? I thought they only ran them about once a year anyway. I got an alert from Midway a couple months ago when they had come back in stock. Of course I delayed and then they were all gone again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evandailey View Post
    Dropped as in "Gone forever." or as in "not making them again for a while"? I thought they only ran them about once a year anyway. I got an alert from Midway a couple months ago when they had come back in stock. Of course I delayed and then they were all gone again.
    Sir, they don't appear in there online catalogs so I am thinking gone forever....If ya get in a bind I might be able to spare a couple boxes for ya...
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    I second on the Game King. Excellent BC and weight for a .35.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    If you're getting that kind of penetration and expansion in oak, what do you suppose it's going to do in a deer. Try a Sierra 225 Game King. It should open up better at the 358Win velocities and still not explode. These new super tough bullets are made for the new Uber mags and they seem to like much higher impact velocities to work. I'm shooting a 350Rem using the Sierra 225s at 2800fps. Even that at 100yds + isn't giving the impact velocities needed to use the Barnes. I shoot a 358Norma as well and IMO it doesn't need a super tough bullet either although I use a 250gr with it at 2850. On the other hand maybe I just like things like me. Old and slow.

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    Nothing wrong with RCBS molds or you can design your own at Mountain Molds and have pretty much anything you want.

    This "bad angle" sounds like preparation for a "Texas heart shot".

    I gotta agree with Brownbear...that cast 200gr flat nose made with wheel weights works great in .35's and I'm working to get a good load with it in my .35/30-30 for my old 94 as a camp gun in case the bears want to share my bacon sandwich.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowrider View Post
    Nothing wrong with RCBS molds or you can design your own at Mountain Molds and have pretty much anything you want.

    This "bad angle" sounds like preparation for a "Texas heart shot".

    I gotta agree with Brownbear...that cast 200gr flat nose made with wheel weights works great in .35's and I'm working to get a good load with it in my .35/30-30 for my old 94 as a camp gun in case the bears want to share my bacon sandwich.
    Lowrider I have noticed bull moose have a habit of stopping at the edge of brush and peering out with only frontal shots, and can be quartering. I sure wouldn't pass that shot up, also would not take a first shot if it was facing away.
    Then after the first shot, or jumping a wounded one, I would say you may be correct that a going away shot might be all that is afforded. I can't recall anything I have shot, or seen shot, run backwards?
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    I had -15 Thursday morning as I headed out to work - we have pretty much been below 25 for about 2 months with many sub zero nights. Haven't had this kinda cold spell here in a couple decades... Helps us in the lower 48 understand why so many of you chaps go crazy from cabin fever! I mean just take a look at Ole Smitty
    I don't get cabin fever. I'm crazy all the time.

    I'm surprised that the 250 grain RN didn't do better on the log, but of course, it's not representative of deer flesh.

    I'd think, it would punch through a lil deer, with some expansion, too. BUT, I've no experiences to go by.

    I carried 250 grain RN Hornady loads in my 338 WM, when I still owned it, for Bear Protection.

    Now, it's 175 grain RN Hornadys for my old 95 Mauser 7x57 for the same purpose.

    Soooo, you can see how your comparison IF it indicates the RNs don't penetrate well, gives me pause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    Sir, they don't appear in there online catalogs so I am thinking gone forever....If ya get in a bind I might be able to spare a couple boxes for ya...
    I think Hornady dropped their 175 and 154 grain 7mm RNs too. I had already buyed up and hoarded a couple three boxes of the 175s.

    It's been a while, but Sierra dropped their 170 grain RNs too.

    RNs must be goin outta style.

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    I would not discount the RN either. If it blew all the way through, how much energy was transferred to the "log moose". I have never seen an animal hit with the 225 leave it tracks. I imagine the RN would be just as devastating. I think I'd experiment with the 225, 250 RN and 250 Spire point and see which one the "rifle" likes.

    I have not loaded any up yet, but with the lower velocities of the .358 you might try some Hornaday 200 grain FTX.

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    For sure the 250RN bullets are a very adequate load. My Ruger shoots them very well, groups are touching at 100 yards so it would do fine. I also think 8in of penetration into oak speaks well for the RN as it is supposed to expand which also slows it down. Last summer I also got 8in of penetration from the 250RN so that shows great consistency. My guess is it would easily pass through a moose shoulder and likely end up in the hide on the other, that would be one dead moose! Just having fun with the Barnes and was clearly impressed with such penetration. Either one will put the game down, TSX probably has an edge for a longer shots, say 250 and beyond. Shot placement is always the most important piece of the puzzle...
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Thanks Smokey:

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    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
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    I wouldn't even consider using one of the new super tough bullets unless I could get 2800+ or it was a super heavy RN that I didn't want to expand. In 358, a 300gr solid RN at 2300 or so would be real hard on just about anything. A pointy 225gr that doesn't open at all had better be placed very well.

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