Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 39

Thread: Lets talk about Land

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    10

    Default Lets talk about Land

    Hello everyone,
    Pray all are doing well and staying warm. I would like to talk about land in Alaska, if you don't mind.

    Of all the reading I have done, concerning Alaska, and how people want to move to Alaska, and live off the land, the land is one of the big parts that people take for granted. I don't know a whole lot about the land in Alaska but, I do know that there are people in Alaska that do.

    From what I have read, cheap equals (no good for growing, no good for live stock, no good for tree's and no good for access), is this about right? Expensive land equals the opposite..

    Is there a middle ground? To me, "expensive" means more people and "cheap" means less people. Sure, you have to work more, or spend more to get your land to do what you want, or need it to do but, lets weigh the ups/downs. If I buy some land, say 160 acre's, and it has two ways to get to it, river and trail, than there aren't going to be a whole lot of people wanting it,,,too much work. Does that necessarily mean that the land is bad land? Being by a river helps so, soil close to the river may be good soil, no?

    I have heard that living in Alaska, off the land, is very expensive. Why? What does a person NEED that is so expensive? I understand that if the wood on said land is no good than, you would need to get it from some where and getting it from there to where you want it, is expensive. Ok, got that. but, how expensive is expensive? One persons view on expensive might be different than yours. I can see the expense of a snow machine, a freezer, some tools, some other items for the home, a boat, some snow shoes, fishing poles and gear, some food, some clothes and other stuff of the sort. The biggest problem I see is "gas", where do I get it, and how do I get it to the site? What is better for lighting?

    I will stop there in regards to the questions and comments about land. Let me tell you a little about myself and where I am in life, just so you don't think I am a troll.

    I am currently 45, be 46 in March. I have 5 kids, 3 grand kids and a wife of 25+ years. I have confidence that our Country is going to hell, quickly and feel that within 10 years, we will all be hurting to some degree, more than we are now. I want to get away from people, in general. I really hate cold but, where is it that people will not go to as easily as say, the Smokey Mountains? Every nice place in the lower 48, like the Smokey's, are flooded with people and completely owned by the states that the Mountains fall within. There is lots of "bush" in the TN, SC, NC, VA, WV, PA, NY state, GA, AL, MS and LA I have thought about moving to all of these places, or buying land somewhere, where I could be in seclusion somewhat. The land is very expensive in these area's and because they are nice in the summer, people flock to them. So, no seclusion or very little anyway. I am a firm believer in "you have to give to get" so, I have been looking at Alaska. Land is cheap in some areas, yes the areas where there is very little access... I could buy land in WY for $250 and acre but who wants to own a dessert? Not much seclusion there...and it would take a lot of work and money to do anything with it. I could buy beautiful land in TN for 10,000 an acre up to 1,000,000 for a lot. I don't have that kind of money but, if I did, I would buy in TN or the other states I mentioned. Buy enough, you can have seclusion, until the Country fall's apart and everyone wants to get in your seclusion.

    I think you get my meaning so, I will leave it at that. God bless

  2. #2
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tanana Valley AK
    Posts
    7,214

    Default

    Howdy. Meaning no offense; you haven't asked anything that hasn't already been asked and answered here many, many times... Read through this forum and you'll find all the answers to the questions you've asked. Then, if you still think living in bush Alaska is what you want, buy a plane ticket and come up for a visit next December/January and have a look around. Packing up your family and dragging them to a place they may very well hate, because you're convinced the end is coming, may very well leave you completely broke and regretting your choice, in short order. The first, best, only reason to live here is because you love the place. Moving here because you're running away from something and are convinced Alaska is a land of milk and honey that offers the escape you seek, is a bad idea.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    10

    Default

    I appreciate your response "iofthetaiga". I will continue to read as time allows and look for the specific answers I am looking for. I don't plan on packing up my family, I am simply looking for the best place to go, to be away from what I believe will happen in the near future. I am not screaming Armageddon or the planets destruction, simply that life will be different and I personally don't want to depend on anyone for my life. So, that is why I am looking at this forum, because maybe Alaska is the best place for what I am looking for, in this Country. There are certainly other Country's but, I prefer to stay in the US. I am not looking for Milk or Honey, simply a place to call my own, and live off of as much as humanly possible. Thanks

  4. #4
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tanana Valley AK
    Posts
    7,214

    Default

    The reality is that it's actually far more challenging to "live off the land" in Alaska than in many, if not most places in the L-48. And if you really look at it objectively, living here, bush or otherwise, leaves you far more dependent on others than might be required in other places. Anyway, best of luck to you.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

  5. #5
    Member Hunt&FishAK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Valley trash
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TNSheepDog View Post
    I appreciate your response "iofthetaiga". I will continue to read as time allows and look for the specific answers I am looking for. I don't plan on packing up my family, I am simply looking for the best place to go, to be away from what I believe will happen in the near future. I am not screaming Armageddon or the planets destruction, simply that life will be different and I personally don't want to depend on anyone for my life. So, that is why I am looking at this forum, because maybe Alaska is the best place for what I am looking for, in this Country. There are certainly other Country's but, I prefer to stay in the US. I am not looking for Milk or Honey, simply a place to call my own, and live off of as much as humanly possible. Thanks
    Theres virtually no game here compared to the L48. You'd be hard pressed to keep fed. In bush ak fuel is extremely expensive. $5-8 gallon for reg if not more, and way more for heating fuel. Do more research, in the lower 48, before you decide to try here. Have you thought of Wyoming or idaho? If I had to choose one state besides AK to live. It'd be idaho. Hands down.



    Release Lake Trout

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    wasilla
    Posts
    788

    Default

    I would add to this as it has been said many times before. I lived in CO for many years and used to do a lot of hunting /fishing there to include guiding I would say how hard it was to hunt there as compared to other places.... AK is by far the hardest place to live. 15% to 20% more on everything you do up here cost wise. I have not tried to do it myself up here but have talked to a lot of folks and they all have said you can not live totally off the land. Growing season is short, game is spotty or seasonal in most areas and no one can be completely depend on themselves.
    Most remote areas you have to hall your goods in by plane/boat/ snow machine. Some years with little snow will prevent you from getting anything in that you will need for the rest of the year. Then what? Some people say to live in AK is a real life style

    Good luck

    Sweepint
    Wasilla, (when not overseas)
    '' Livn' The Dream ''
    26' Hewescraft Cuddy, twin 115 Yam

  7. #7
    Member AK Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    South Central
    Posts
    2,541

    Default

    Keeping it simple...AK is a swamp. A frozen swamp. There are even swamps in the sides of the mountains. Vertical swamps.

    Due to the recent glacial history most of the "soil" up here is gravel or silt. Organic soils are acidic. Decades of work to create farm land.

    The growing season is easily measured in hours despite the midnight sun. Soil temp is more important than sun at times.

    2x4 studs cost from $2 to $3 each.

    You can make your own lumber it just takes a few years to season the trees and let them unwind. Spruce will spend years untwisting depending how they grew. However your property may not have enough decent trees and you'll have to harvest from state land.

  8. #8
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wrangell
    Posts
    7,599

    Default

    If I was wanting to get away more than I am now Texas would be the spot. Lost in the Texas piney woods or south Texas deer least areas you can have large tracks of cheap fertile land with lots of game and few people. Dig a few tanks and stock with fish,plant a garden and get a few goats and chickens you are good to go.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    1,376

    Default

    Turn off the reality tv shows. Expensive is expensive. I live in the bush. It costs me $600-750 to get to my village from anchorage. Gas is $7.50 a gallon. My electric bill (I'm pretty green living) fluctuates between $150-$300 a month.

    If you really want to make a to at it, come visit in the summer and in the winter. Most of the soil here is not good for crops.

    i make trips into anchorage when I can for shopping and then I spend a day and a lot of money shipping totes to my house. Good news for me is I live in a village. Not off grid.

    I reqlly think hunk you should look into lower 48 land for what you want.

  10. #10
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    5,594

    Default

    The two primary reasons people don't live off the land in Alaska is most of the land that is for sale (most land is government land only a small percentage of land is privately owned) is marginally suitable for growing crops and the growing season is very short. Depending on how far North you go, Memorial day is typically the earliest you can plant to be assured your seedlings won't be killed by a frost, and whatever you're growing better be done growing by mid to late August so it isn't killed by a frost. That's at most a 3 month growing season and while we have alot of light, plants need heat and a nice hot growing summer is an occasional thing, more often plenty of cooler temps and cloud cover.

    How expensive is expensive? I'd say if you were debt free and had $100,000 in cash you could buy some land, tools, boat, building supplies and be off to a reasonably good start. That said I'd factor in $5-10,000 a year to have food stuffs you can't grow or catch, fuel and other odds and ends flown in. That begs the question if you're in the woods on your own, where are you going to earn that $5-10k to supliment your subsistance lifestyle? Which is why I say to make it "off the land" you're either independently wealthy, take a vow of poverty or end up on government assistance.

    If you really want to life a subsistance or semi-subsistance lifestyle then you're much better off living on the road system. The land will be more expensive but you'll be able to drive to the store to buy supplies as needed, fill up on fuel and be able to pick up part time work to suppliment what you can't grow on your own.

    As much as I love Alaska, if I was looking to live a subsistance lifestyle it would be someplace with more productive land and a longer growing season. Of course I'd have to contend with crowds and many of the ills of society that Alaska faces on a much smaller scale.

    The reason Alaska has a small population for it's massive size isn't because of the cold and long winters, it's because it's a tough very expensive place to live.
    Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

    If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Thank you all for your replies to this thread, I do appreciate it. I know the same questions get answered over and over all the time on these forums and I apologize for causing anyone to answer something that has already been answered. It isn't easy finding the information that a particular person is looking for, on these forums.

    From what I have read, it seems that Alaska may not be what I am looking for after all. I will continue to do more research on the idea though and ask questions. I have found some land over by Big Lake (10 acre's surrounded by state land). I would imagine that the area is a tourist attraction, being that it is close to so many lakes. The owner said that no tree's are good enough for using for a log cabin so, that means shipping in. Only a trail to get into the property which is okay but, I would much rather have what I need on/in the land when all I have is trail or water access. Same goes for anywhere I choose to buy property.

    I have looked into TX and that may be my better option, just have to live with Mexicans that don't speak English is all but, most are good folks. Anyway, have also looked into WY but, the land that I can afford is wide open,,,not for me. I like tree's streams, MTN's and wildlife. I don't recall if I ever looked into ID so, I will check that out today. I like LA as well, living on some remote land in the Swamp don't sound too bad.

    I'll tell you what I want to do. I want a small cabin/house, solar power w/generator, a well, a garden, some chickens, some pigs, some goats and a couple cows. I realize that it would take some time and money to get set up but, once I am, it shouldn't take a whole lot of money every month to sustain. I prefer the south to do that, due to weather obviously but, sometimes you have to go where no one else wants to,,,that is why I thought of Alaska.

    Thanks again everyone...

  12. #12
    Member Hunt&FishAK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Valley trash
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Big lake is anchorages play land. There's alot of residents there, but there are even more rec. cabins owned by weekend warriors who live in anchorage. I lived there a few years. I like the area, but compared to what it was 10 years ago its really filled up with people and houses and subdivisions all over the place. And if they build the bridge across Knik arm, it'll really grow

    as for trees. Well back in the 90s there was a huge fire in that area. Burned up the whole area.



    Release Lake Trout

  13. #13
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tanana Valley AK
    Posts
    7,214

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TNSheepDog View Post
    I'll tell you what I want to do. I want a small cabin/house, solar power w/generator, a well, a garden, some chickens, some pigs, some goats and a couple cows.
    People do gardens, chickens, pigs, goats, and cows here, in some areas of the state, but there's a significant aspect of "sport" involved in those ventures; you do it to prove you can, in spite of the fact that Mother Nature is not playing for your team....The soil is cold and generally poor, the growing season is extremely short, livestock requires great expense and effort to feed, house, and keep through the long cold winter months....the sub-arctic climate does not lend itself to 'easy' living. It's not impossible, but it's not cheap or easy.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

  14. #14
    Member ADUKHNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Eagle River
    Posts
    503

    Default

    Not to sound harsh, If you have not visited AK, there is no way to describe it to you that you would understand. My military career has taken me to most states in the U.S and all over the world, AK is different than anywhere else. It is wetter, colder, darker, lighter, tougher, rougher and awesomer than you can imagine without spending some time there. Someone asked me today "why would you choose to move back there?" The only answer I can give is: AK is almost uncomprehend able-you have to go there to understand. Land....yep lots of choices, every choice is a compromise. Everyone wants land with all big game, fishing, trapping and gold bearing with a view which is secluded and easy to get to....it does not exist so you need to make compromises. Come up and visit and look around. Go visit those folks near Homer you see on TV living as you describe.
    I have such a hard time trying to decide which outdoor activity to do every chance I get!! Living in AK is a mental challenge

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Thanks again friends, really appreciate the feedback.

    My father in-law talked to me about going to Alaska back in the late 80's, early 90's. All that I could think about in that young mind of mine was; "are you freaken crazy? It's cold up there and I hate cold". LOL,,,well, now my mind thinks completely different and I am willing to put up with cold, to get away from people, just not sure I need to.

    I have had the "farm" idea for a long time, even dabbled in chickens, and pigs but, my time away from home during the Iraq war, caused all that to get lost. So, now I am looking to buy some land that is off the main road. I added the solar plan a few years ago, plus a process called aquaponics. I realize that this would be more difficult in Alaska, keeping the farm animals fed, warm and healthy. I still believe that I could be completely self sufficient at some point but it would be very difficult so, I aim for the best I can get.

    All this talk about Alaska is making me want to go visit the state at least....

  16. #16
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    5,594

    Default

    What most people fail to grasp when considering living off the land in Alaska is how difficult of a task that is and what it requires. Forget about the stories of Dick Proeneke and other rugged individuals as well as the gold miners and other adventures over the past few centuries. The only people that have truly lived off the land in Alaska are the Alaska Native peoples pre-European contact. According to Anthropogists they have lived in Alaska for 10,000 years. There are three important takeaways if you do some study of how they managed to survive and prosper in this land. 1) They were hunter gatherers, not farmers. 2) They were nomadic peoples. 3) They did not live over every square foot of the state, the areas they chose to live were relatively rich in sea life or had strong annual runs of fish in the rivers and were reasonably close to big game or on big game migration paths.

    Hence if you really want to live a lifestyle that is as close as possible to living off the land you should research where native peoples historically lived, and avoid the areas they did not historically live in. Conversely if your goal is getting away from civilization odds are the location you choose will be about the worst possible place to live off the land because if it was a good place to live off the land people would already be living there.

    If your primary goal is to get away from people, then plan on finding a location where you'll have to have the majority of your food stuffs shipped in and suppliment them with fish, game and whatever you can forage. If you want to live off the land your best odds will be in an area that is on the road system and hence you'll be able to purchase what you need at relatively reasonable prices and will likely find that your neighbors are decent people that have the same goal of living a more basic lifestyle.

    It's hard to impress enough the difficulty and cost of living off the road system when everything you have has to be flown in as that doubles, tripples, quadrupiles or adds a zero to the cost of items and you need to have either an airstrip on your land, or a means of transporting those items from the local airstrip to your land.
    Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

    If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you.

  17. #17

    Default

    Dick Proeneke didn't really live off the land. He had a good government pension which allowed him to afford to fly supplies in.

  18. #18
    Member cdubbin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    KP, the dingleberry of Alaska
    Posts
    1,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ADUKHNT View Post
    Land....yep lots of choices, every choice is a compromise. Everyone wants land with all big game, fishing, trapping and gold bearing with a view which is secluded and easy to get to.....
    Ha! that's priceless, man.... I would add, gotta be able to raise a good crop o' cotton and okra, too.....
    " Gas boats are bad enough, autos are an invention of the devil, and airplanes are worse." ~Allen Hasselborg

  19. #19
    Member ADUKHNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Eagle River
    Posts
    503

    Default

    A good place to start is http://www.remoteproperties.com/ a good friend of mine just bought an awesome cabin and property off of there, he now has a solid 5year plan in place to move from Eagle River to that cabin.

    NOTE: He already lives in AK and decided he needs at least a 5 yr plan to properly go off grid.
    I have such a hard time trying to decide which outdoor activity to do every chance I get!! Living in AK is a mental challenge

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Juneau
    Posts
    2,127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TNSheepDog View Post

    All this talk about Alaska is making me want to go visit the state at least....
    Oh goody, another one.

    "Dick Proeneke didn't really live off the land. He had a good government pension which allowed him to afford to fly supplies in."
    Ding Ding Ding......that, and a ridiculous amount of talent with wood working and such, and no dependents. If you do not already have your money, there are few things you can do to keep the lights on and live remotely. Trapping professionally isn't done much anymore, prospecting is obviously iffy and the grubstake would wipe out most folks. If people were as tough as they used to be and could shiver in a sod house all winter and eat beans with squirrel three times a day, and walk or snowshoe a trapline.....there would be more people still in the sticks. To do it with any toys or amenities would bury most folks and certainly would not be sustainable with fuel use etc.

    Only thing I can add to Paul H's post is that natives also had extremely short life expectancies.....living in the bush the old way is hard on ya.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •