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Thread: Moose hunting "derby" legislation

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Default Moose hunting "derby" legislation

    http://www.adn.com/2014/02/06/331012...aw-change.html

    This was the first I've heard of this proposed legislation. One thing I'm not clear on is how big buck contests like the one Boondocks in Eagle River holds every year are different than what is being proposed. Does anyone have more first-hand knowledge of this bill and its nuances?

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Interesting. Maybe I missed something. Does the state benefit in any way from this? I don't have any first hand knowledge of moose derbies.

    I'd like to hear what other say on this issue.

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    Looks like it simply makes it legal for the nonprofit organizations to use a "Moose Derby" as a fund raiser. The listed non profits, TVSA and UAF rifle are certainly big in the local shooting arenas in Fairbanks and North Pole and they both do a tremendous amount for youth shooting. I certainly don't see any negative impact - we already have the "60 inch club". Let them make a little money for a good cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    Interesting. Maybe I missed something. Does the state benefit in any way from this? I don't have any first hand knowledge of moose derbies.

    I'd like to hear what other say on this issue.
    its like the Valdez silver derby.. you buy a ticket before you go out and IF you get a big one you enter it.. just used as a fund raiser for the shooting club that does a lot of good to help our youth,
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    My only thought on this is whether there would be enough interested people to make the effort worthwhile. When you really think about it, in a given year, how many hunters are realistically hunting areas that they might be in the running for the biggest bull moose? Then factor in that many of those wouldn't bother to by a ticket (just based on the fact that a good percentage of people who fish areas/times with fishing derbies going on don't bother to buy tickets) and your numbers drop a good amount.

    If there is a base big enough to support the effort, sounds like a reasonable means to earn some funds.

    I don't think the State government would have any monetary benefit from it. Most likely just like the Nenana Ice Classic, where a portion of the proceeds goes to the winner and another portion goes to the non-profit/charity. I am not sure if there is any kind of gaming tax/license fee involved in those programs.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    My only thought on this is whether there would be enough interested people to make the effort worthwhile. When you really think about it, in a given year, how many hunters are realistically hunting areas that they might be in the running for the biggest bull moose? Then factor in that many of those wouldn't bother to by a ticket (just based on the fact that a good percentage of people who fish areas/times with fishing derbies going on don't bother to buy tickets) and your numbers drop a good amount.
    If they ran such a "derby" right, I bet they could get quite a large buy-in. Again, I think of the big buck contest that Boondocks holds each year as an example. With a $10 entry fee, there's really nothing to lose for that outside chance of winning a really nice rifle or one of the other 20+ prizes. For folks hunting areas not likely to hold winning bucks, they also do a largest fork competition. I could see that working for moose as well - have an overall grand prize, but also prizes for longest spike, largest fork, etc. If there were a longest spike competition, I'd buy the $10 ticket even if only hunting 14A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    If they ran such a "derby" right, I bet they could get quite a large buy-in. Again, I think of the big buck contest that Boondocks holds each year as an example. With a $10 entry fee, there's really nothing to lose for that outside chance of winning a really nice rifle or one of the other 20+ prizes. For folks hunting areas not likely to hold winning bucks, they also do a largest fork competition. I could see that working for moose as well - have an overall grand prize, but also prizes for longest spike, largest fork, etc. If there were a longest spike competition, I'd buy the $10 ticket even if only hunting 14A.
    Good points. I hadn't thought of having more than one way to win such as your example of "longest spike". Something like that would definitely bring in a lot more people.

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    ​Here is the text of the bill, below. May as well add bear derbies at the same time, eh.

    HOUSE BILL NO. 268
    01 "An Act relating to big bull moose derbies."
    02 BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF ALASKA:

    03 * Section 1. AS 05.15.100(a) is amended to read:
    04 (a) The department may issue a permit to a municipality or qualified
    05 organization. The permit gives the municipality or qualified organization the privilege
    06 of conducting bingo, raffles and lotteries, pull-tab games, ice classics, race classics,
    07 rain classics, goose classics, mercury classics, deep freeze classics, canned salmon
    08 classics, salmon classics, king salmon classics, dog mushers' contests, snow classics,
    09 snow machine classics, fish derbies, animal classics, crane classics, cabbage classics,
    10 Calcutta pools, big bull moose derbies, and contests of skill.

    11 * Sec. 2. AS 05.15.115(c) is amended to read:
    12 (c) A permittee may not contract with more than one operator at a time to
    13 conduct the same type of activity. For the purposes of this subsection, bingo games,
    14 raffles, lotteries, pull-tab games, ice classics, race classics, rain classics, goose
    15 classics, mercury classics, deep freeze classics, canned salmon classics, salmon
    01 classics, king salmon classics, dog mushers' contests, snow classics, snow machine
    02 classics, fish derbies, animal classics, crane classics, cabbage classics, big bull moose
    03 derbies, and contests of skill are each a different type of activity.

    04 * Sec. 3. AS 05.15.180(b) is amended to read:
    05 (b) With the exception of raffles, lotteries, bingo games, pull-tab games, race
    06 classics, rain classics, goose classics, mercury classics, deep freeze classics, dog
    07 mushers' contests, snow classics, snow machine classics, canned salmon classics,
    08 salmon classics, animal classics, crane classics, cabbage classics, Calcutta pools, big
    09 bull moose derbies, and king salmon classics, an activity may not be licensed under
    10 this chapter unless it existed in the state in substantially the same form and was
    11 conducted in substantially the same manner before January 1, 1959. A snow machine
    12 classic may not be licensed under this chapter unless it has been in existence for at
    13 least five years before the licensing. An animal classic may not be licensed under this
    14 chapter unless it was in existence before November 1, 2002.

    15 * Sec. 4. AS 05.15.690 is amended by adding a new paragraph to read:
    16 (50) "big bull moose derby" means a contest in which prizes are
    17 awarded for harvesting bull moose based on the size or spread of the antlers.

    New Text Underlined
    [DELETED TEXT BRACKETED]

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    I have deep misgivings about placing our fish and game (and renewable resources in general) into the same realm as Bingo, etc.
    It is a faulty philosophy in my view and may contribute to already diminishing respect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 Bronco View Post
    I have deep misgivings about placing our fish and game (and renewable resources in general) into the same realm as Bingo, etc.
    It is a faulty philosophy in my view and may contribute to already diminishing respect.
    I can "somewhat" understand your point. Can you elaborate a little more?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    I can "somewhat" understand your point. Can you elaborate a little more?
    Sure, and I appreciate your asking.

    It just seems like many times when we choose to monetize something we are gifted with, unforeseen, down the trail complications arise. Management is already complicated and burdensome; adding a layer and potential effects of $gaming$ events could spawn problems of abuse, politicizing or such.
    Perhaps some folks familiar with effects of Derbies on the fishing community (or any) could have words to add.

    Off track or not, turning the natural world over to the 'reality show' syndrome just rubs my old bones the wrong way, too.
    That being said, UAF is important to me in many respects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    ​Here is the text of the bill, below. May as well add bear derbies at the same time, eh.

    i've already discussed Bear Derbys with them..
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 Bronco View Post
    It just seems like many times when we choose to monetize something we are gifted with, unforeseen, down the trail complications arise. Management is already complicated and burdensome; adding a layer and potential effects of $gaming$ events could spawn problems of abuse, politicizing or such.
    What were we "gifted" with? If you mean the animals, we own them. Public resource managed for the public good.
    I don't see how this "adds a layer" to management. Perhaps a few hunters will pass on smaller moose in hopes of winning some cash on a larger one. Likely some who choose that will not harvest at all by season end.
    We already have a goodly amount of recognition/fame for hunters who harvest large specimens. Newspapers, store picture boards, etc. I don't see a problem with non profits like Tan Valley Sportsmen and others making some money from hunters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Perhaps a few hunters will pass on smaller moose in hopes of winning some cash on a larger one.
    Or perhaps if no one's looking they'll throw the dead one back, just like they do with fish, and shoot the much bigger one that just walked by... I believe that's the sort of thing 68 Bronco was alluding to...
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  15. #15

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    Originally Posted by martentrapper
    Perhaps a few hunters will pass on smaller moose in hopes of winning some cash on a larger one.





    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Or perhaps if no one's looking they'll throw the dead one back, just like they do with fish, and shoot the much bigger one that just walked by... I believe that's the sort of thing 68 Bronco was alluding to...
    Yes, right there are two examples with potential effects on management or enforcement 'layers'. Tallying up the effects of gaming, being beneficial or damaging is not always immediately evident.

    Non-profits of all variety make the papers often enough, too - sometimes this comes down the road a surprise, not always good. Divisions develop, money and politics enter and we end up bickering over who gets the gaming 'prize' - assuming any survives.

    I'd like to hear what others think, as I am far from certain tilting game populations further towards monetary influences has proven wise.
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    Although I can understand the concern Bronco and IO have, I believe the overall impact of the derbies on the moose population would be negligible. Hunters will usually take the biggest animal they have the opportunity to take. I don't know anyone who makes a living off the Nenana Ice Classic or any other legal derdy/raffle. Should charitable organizations be able to use it to generate some income for a worthy cause? Absolutely.
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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    I think I'm inclined to take a position similar to Mike Echo's here. I've entered the Homer winter king derby a couple of times, and having money on the line certainly didn't change my behavior - still kept the first fish I caught. Granted, fishing derbies might be a bit different than big-game, but I'd still wager that it wouldn't lead to illegal or unethical behavior. I'd assume that we'd be looking at relatively small stakes here. The Boondocks big buck contest has a first prize that is worth ~$1,500 - big enough to be a cool prize, but not a life-changing amount. I just can't imagine a contest like this would be big enough to create top prizes in the tens of thousands of dollars. As such, it would probably just raise a modest amount of money and not really have an impact on how people view the game they hunt.

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    Doesn't Sportsman's Warehouse do something similiar with the annual antler and horn display?

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    Some states have random prize drawings for anyone who purchases a hunting license and businesses usually sponsor by providing prizes (canoes, guns, etc.). I am more in favor of something like this over the equivalent of a fishing derby for moose.

  20. #20
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