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Thread: Packraft pump

  1. #1
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    Default Packraft pump

    What is everyone using for their pr49 or similar rafts. I want to cut pack size down from the pump it comes with. Anyone using a bag plus small pump combo ?

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  2. #2

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    Idaho, there are valves (obviously), so a bag inflation will be a challenge. I haven't tried it myself to see if it's possible, so if you figure it out let me know. If you try it, you'll have to rig your bag with a Halkey Roberts-style adapter and try it with the valve open. You won't likely create enough force by hand if the valves are closed.

    You might try the K-pump, which are long cigar shaped hand pumps that NRS sells. They weigh 2-lbs (downside), but they pack better in a backpack. Not what you're looking for I'm sure, but an alternative nonetheless for shedding bulk.

    http://www.nrs.com/product/1723/k-pump-20-hp

    larry

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bartlett View Post
    Idaho, there are valves (obviously), so a bag inflation will be a challenge. I haven't tried it myself to see if it's possible, so if you figure it out let me know. If you try it, you'll have to rig your bag with a Halkey Roberts-style adapter and try it with the valve open. You won't likely create enough force by hand if the valves are closed.

    You might try the K-pump, which are long cigar shaped hand pumps that NRS sells. They weigh 2-lbs (downside), but they pack better in a backpack. Not what you're looking for I'm sure, but an alternative nonetheless for shedding bulk.

    http://www.nrs.com/product/1723/k-pump-20-hp

    larry
    I tried it with the inflation bag...have to have the valve open as Larry says....aired it up that way ok...but it wouldn't get as tight as I would like. Good enough to use certainly and if only taking one pump on a trip due to hiking in and weight limits the bag with the crossover would be a good back up, which is what I plan on doing.

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    I think I'm gonna try a bag with a k pump mini. For weight and size reasons over the k 20. Thanks for the good info so far.

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  5. #5

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    I know the PR 49 pump is bulky, but if you are going to need to do any quick maneuvering, I'd really consider the pump. I don't know how you would get the PR 49 ridged enough with just a bag inflation. Having that pump really helps give it that extra pressure you need. If you will be doing any class II or III it should be mandatory to get that boat pumped up well. I know from experience from my trips last summer...

    Alpacas get away with it by having the mouth valve to top off your chamber. The PR 49 doesn't have that and you have to use the pump to force enough air in to the chambers to get them plumped up. When I hunted out of my Alpaca Yak I used the bag system. Now I use the pr 49 and use the pump. Its bulky and weird, but I don't know how to not use it. If you figure it out, share it with the rest of us.

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    Yes I agree the pump does a good job getting the rig up to pressure. I used it this last August on a float hunt for caribou down the sag. I'm just looking for the smaller package for future backpacking trips. I am going to try some combination of bag and top off pump and I will keep this post up to date, maybe even make a YouTube video. Still open for more suggestions from others.

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  7. #7

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    The little K-PUMP works great.
    Goo

  8. #8
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    Here is my solution to create an adapter for an Alpaca inflation bag.

    From US Plastics get the following:
    022211 - check valve 3/4" FNPT
    062023 - 3/4" MNPT x 5/8" hose adapter

    From NRS get a short new version H-R valve adapter, which will come with about three inches of 5/8" ID hose.

    The Alpaca bag has a 3/4" pvc MNPT fitting held in place with a stub of 3/4" PVC pipe. You could replace this with a larger fitting but the limiting factor is the 5/8" H-R valve so there is no real point in trying to increase air flow by increasing the diameter.

    Stick it together and you have a 3.4oz adapter to fit between an alpaca bag and the PR49 H-R fill valve. This adapter also functions as a mouth fill valve to topping off the pressure in the raft tubes.

    However, there is a major problem with this system. The alpaca inflation bag does not have sealed seams and more air escapes the seam stitching than will go into the raft tube. There is just enough back pressure from the check valve that nearly all the air from my bag will not go into the raft. I spent 15 minutes pushing a lot of air with dozens of bag inflations and compressions and nothing was happening. I thought maybe I left the fill valve on the raft closed. Tried the mouth fill options and lots of air went into the raft tube. I sealed off the 3/4" PVC fitting on the inflation bag and sure enough air was screaming out all along the entire sewn seam. The seams down near the PVC fitting were nearly split due to the pressure build up.

    So, seam sealing the inflation bag is very important. This adapter can be used as a mouth valve if you have the lungs for that. Further experiments are to be conducted this winter. I have not fully pumped the raft up using this system today. Once I get the bag seam sealed and that cures I will post up my results. If my lungs live through the topping off process.

  9. #9
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    Well, had some more time to experiment.

    I swapped out a 5/8" x 3/4" FNPT fitting for the check valve and used the bag to get one raft tube filled up until I reached a pressure point where air was going out the seam leaks more than in the raft.

    Then I swapped the check valve back in and managed to get more air into the raft tube, but no where near enough to tighten the tube up.

    Since the raft fill valve is open you loose air when taking the bag/mouth fill device off before you can twist the fill valve closed.

    It took about 12 or 15 pushes of the double quick pump to get the raft tube tight. The pump can over come the fill valve and the back pressure that the bag and the mouth can't.

    It took 18 minutes with the bag and check valve to get to a stopping point for filling the raft tube.

    The bag process is just not up to the task to get the raft tubes as tight as they need to be for the raft to function at its top level. A mechanical pump is the best way to go.

  10. #10

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    Yep, if you read above I did the same thing as you with the crossover and inflation bag. Its a good "backup" as oppose to carying two regular pumps as you can still get the raft full of air if needed but it will be far from rigid and responsive. That said it'll still float and maybe get you out of there in a bind.

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    Good info Ray, I ordered a mini k pump a couple days ago and still need to get a bag ordered. My thoughts are to save time starting with the bag then topping off with the mini. What do you guys think ?

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  12. #12
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    The mini pump will work. However with the bag and pump you now are carrying a few ounces more than the double quick pump alone.

    The mini k is about 4 oz less than the double quick. The mini k is upper body only pump action, so the double quick gets your whole body into the pumping and pushes more air volume.

    For weight saving you are going to consider bag only and use a floppy raft, or just the mini pump. Bag only gets you down to 7 - 8 oz and the mini pump shaves off about 4oz.

    This was a fun experiment.

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    I ended up with a mini k pump and did a trial this evening to compare inflate times with the double quick II pump that came with the raft.
    The mini on my scale is 19.3 oz
    The double quick is 19.9 oz

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    So the weight difference is not noticeable and I will mention that is with HR adaptors on both pumps.
    The inflate time for the mini was ~12 min 20 sec

    The double quick was ~7 min 50 sec.
    That is pumping at a consistent speed and not racing, just comparatively pumping, like I would real world.

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    I am choosing the mini for my trips for now and this is because:

    Packable, it's just better to pack with slimmer profile and no hose to worry about.

    Strength, it is built tougher and something I would rather have especially being in deep country somewhere.

    Ergonomics, I actually like pumping with it better. Though it takes a bit longer, I can pump from my knees or sitting if I want. And the pumping is effortless while I leave the valves in open position until top off time.
    I don't like the lower back effort that the double quick demands and you pretty much have to use your feet to hold it in place. So there it is, so far the best pump I have found for my PR 49

    The office time trial






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    Thanks for the follow up with this. I had been pondering options for awhile and this really helped out

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  17. #17

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    Think I have an extra bag. I only use the k-pump and even use a 420/840 din SB pacraft. Have carried enough moose meat and bear hides on my back to worry about a couple of oz. and i am only 65 yrs.
    The bag is new. Good deal-
    goo
    sotaralaska@yahoo.com

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