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Thread: New Proposals covering Waterfowl hunting

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    Default New Proposals covering Waterfowl hunting

    Anchorage Board of Game Meeting website. Click on the proposal PDF link. Start at proposal 151 and keep reading down through them.

    Sea Ducks Unlimited and Pioneer Alaska Fisheries have submitted several proposals that will effect waterfowl hunting. They could not shut down sea duck hunting in their cove across from Homer, so now they are trying to go at it from the back end to provide more enforcement options. Since these are statewide proposals they will effect all waterfowl hunters in AK.

    The deadline for commenting on the statewide proposals is February 28. Meeting in Anchorage is March 14-18.

    Submit your comments on line here using their form, or using an alternative method in another tab of that site.

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    Member duckslayer56's Avatar
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    Looks like the gal from Homer is at it again eh. I'll submit some comments soon. I'll get word out to all my buddies too. Can't imagine salvaging almost non existent hind quarters on a GWT, spoonbill, or buffie. And most guys probably don't know how to skin a bird correctly for the taxidermist. So I can't see that one working out too well. I guess if it does pass you could have the taxidermist give back the carcass. But how are they going to enforce that for out of state sea duck hunters (the majority of which are the guys going on guided hunts shooting "her" sea ducks in Sadie cove).
    Some people call it sky busting... I call it optimism
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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    I find it funny they say a whole plucked bird will not spoil as rapidly as just the breast. How is that possible?
    I know the breast is smaller therefore easier to cool right? Plus a breast is much easier to cool on all sides compared to a whole bird.
    As for the possesion limit......that I find almost comical.
    How do I count how many ducks are in 6 duck sausages or a bowl of leftover stew in my refrigerator or freezer?
    That and to say an Alaskan cannot store game meat from waterfowl for the winter to be consumed at a later date? Really? Does that not go against all that is Alaskan including harvesting your own game meat and subsistence activities?
    But I do understand once proposed there is a chance these could pass and that would surely upset me.
    I will submit my comments. Thanks for posting this.
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    I just read the possession limit one more closely, It appears that there are some errors in the proposal. Apparenlty somebody didn't read the federal regulations, or misunderstood them, or maybe are trying to pull fast one. I just researched it myself and found the following:

    The BOG proposal states:
    Federal rules state possession limits, depending on species of "no more than" a certain days bag limit, can be in a person’s possession.


    But in fact the Federal regulations state the following:

    20.33 Possession limit.No person shall possess more migratory game birds taken in the United States than the possession limit or the aggregate possession limit, whichever applies.

    Also:

    §20.35 Field possession limit.

    No person shall possess, have in custody, or transport more than the daily bag limit or aggregate daily bag limit, whichever applies, of migratory game birds, tagged or not tagged, at or between the place where taken and either (a) his automobile or principal means of land transportation; or (b) his personal abode or temporary or transient place of lodging; or (c) a migratory bird preservation facility; or (d) a post office; or (e) a common carrier facility.

    And this is the reg for daily bag limit:

    §20.24 Daily limit.

    No person shall take in any 1 calendar day, more than the daily bag limit or aggregate daily bag limit, whichever applies.

    I swear they think we are a bunch of duck slaughtering savages that only go out and kill birds then throw them away.

    Let me ask you guys a question, are any of you really confused on what Possession limit means? It seems pretty darned simple and cut and dry to me in the state and federal waterfowl regs.
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    Does anybody know who Sea Duck Unlimited is? I'm trying to research who they are, and they don't even seem to have a website.

    I can see it appears to be the same person from the other proposals because the who is likely to benefit portion of the proposal is awful similar to those other ones.

    The guide log book reg is kinda stupid. There aren't many waterfowl guides in the state, and they have to make up what, 1-10% maybe of the harvest in the state? Where is this info going? Is it going to Sea Ducks Unlimited? Why is ADF&G or USFWS not asking for this info, and why didn't they put up the proposal. If he ADF&G and USFWS is really concerned about sea duck harvest numbers, why does my HIP report only ask if I've killed over 10?
    Some people call it sky busting... I call it optimism
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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    This part really gets me.
    "Possession means the number of birds in your freezer, in a stew, in your truck, in your boat anywhere… period. Turning ducks and geese into jerky or sausage does not remove them from your possession."
    I mean how do you accurately count the number of ducks you have left when you have only partially eaten the stew or sausages etc..?
    "Hey Bill better eat another duck sausage so I can shoot one more Goldeneye"
    If we go by their posession of ducks what about other federaly managed species like Halibut? No more than two halibut in your freezer or you are over the limit. I don't think so!

    Pinoeer Alaskan fisheries is owned by John and Nancy Hilstrand and is the business license name for Coal point Seafoods in Homer.I believe Nancy Hilstrand is the person responsible for the recurring seaduck proposals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    This part really gets me.
    "Possession means the number of birds in your freezer, in a stew, in your truck, in your boat anywhere… period. Turning ducks and geese into jerky or sausage does not remove them from your possession."
    I mean how do you accurately count the number of ducks you have left when you have only partially eaten the stew or sausages etc..?
    "Hey Bill better eat another duck sausage so I can shoot one more Goldeneye"
    If we go by their posession of ducks what about other federaly managed species like Halibut? No more than two halibut in your freezer or you are over the limit. I don't think so!

    Pinoeer Alaskan fisheries is owned by John and Nancy Hilstrand and is the business license name for Coal point Seafoods in Homer.I believe Nancy Hilstrand is the person responsible for the recurring seaduck proposals.
    I'm pretty sure you're right about who it is, she's been trying to get duck hunters banned from Sadie Cove for years. From what I've heard, she has a cabin there, and doesn't like people killing "her" ducks. Buck has been fighting with her and the Homer AC for a few years now. He's the guide I believe they are targeting in their first proposal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckslayer56 View Post
    Does anybody know who Sea Duck Unlimited is? I'm trying to research who they are, and they don't even seem to have a website.
    When last I checked two years ago Sea Ducks Unlimited's business license is the same address as the fish processor business in Homer. Look back in very old threads and it might come up. She hired a biologist to come up with some very good sounding, but poorly supported by science proposed regulations for the last proposal cycle. I don't know if the biologist is still around. HomerDave may have more current information.

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    I personally would like to see the findings on that research. Think I'll semd them an email and see what they have to say on all this.

    Sounds pretty fishy to me.. Sadie Cove might be a great place to shoot some Harlys and goldeneyes next year.

    I'll be at the meeting in March.
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    I'm going to call Tom Rothe tomorrow, he used to be the bird Bio up here, he's retired now, but may be able to help out with sound science. The science I saw on the seaducks.org site had a lot of opinion in it. I'm also going to contact the Alaska Sea Life Center to see if I can get some info from them. They have one of the best sea duck research programs in North America. I may see if DU can get me in touch with a bio as well. But I'm not sure if they can help very much though. They seem to focus more on the puddle ducks and divers. They have Bios that work for them, so I'd like to see what they can get me. I know that not much is known about sea ducks because there isn't a lot of interest in them with sportsmen. I think they only account for up to 3% of the total harvest, so they haven't been too high on the priority list for studies.

    Honestly we really need to rally together to get the bag limits she got reduced in Seldovia overturned. Anybody who followed that whole fiasco knows there was zero scientific evidence that supported it. The ADF&G weren't pushing for it, and neither were the Bios. We as a duck hunting community need to see what we can do to get that fixed.
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    I think you guys are taking it all wrong - she is just worried about the wasted meat. I, for one, look forward to many great meals of duck pelvis next fall
    Death is like an old whore in a bar--I'll buy her a drink but I won't go upstairs with her.

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    I sent her an email, the company Coal Trading and Pioneer Alaskan Fisheries. I ask for their reasoning, science data, and ideas behind proposing the proposal to BOG. We will see if I get a response.

    I explained to her, them that I would like to offer them and chance to explain their philosophy behind the proposals and hope to see them at the meeting. IF they cannot provide some concrete evidence...that the duckhunters will be at the BOG meeting in force to oppose it.

    Hoping they reply and we can open some dialogue.
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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckhunter01 View Post
    I sent her an email, the company Coal Trading and Pioneer Alaskan Fisheries. I ask for their reasoning, science data, and ideas behind proposing the proposal to BOG. We will see if I get a response.

    I explained to her, them that I would like to offer them and chance to explain their philosophy behind the proposals and hope to see them at the meeting. IF they cannot provide some concrete evidence...that the duckhunters will be at the BOG meeting in force to oppose it.

    Hoping they reply and we can open some dialogue.
    Just so you know I appreciate your efforts in this regard.
    That being said I would venture a guess that she doesn't really want to discuss the issues. She wants her duckies protected so she can continue her bird watching regardless of what is good for the wildlife.
    I am guessing she is one of those who would build a cabin close enough to easily watch the ducks but everyone else should stay away.
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckslayer56 View Post
    The science I saw on the seaducks.org site had a lot of opinion in it.
    I need to oppolgize to the internet at large. On bended knee I promise to google before posting here or anywhere.

    Sea Ducks Unlimited is owned by Alaska Wild Animal Recovery Effort (AWARE) which owns the seaducks.org website and the seaduckinfo.org website. Both are based in Homer. Both collect published research and repost that as it applies to their agenda.

    Alaska Wild Animal Recovery Effort does not have a business license in AK. They are now a dissolved nonprofit as of 2011.

    Sea ducks Unlimited business license expired in 2011.

    Pioneer Alaska Fisheries business license expired in 1995.

    Coal Trading does not have a business license, and both "coal trading" corporations listed for AK are not in Homer but are disolved nonetheless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duckslayer56 View Post
    Honestly we really need to rally together to get the bag limits she got reduced in Seldovia overturned. Anybody who followed that whole fiasco knows there was zero scientific evidence that supported it. The ADF&G weren't pushing for it, and neither were the Bios. We as a duck hunting community need to see what we can do to get that fixed.
    That wasnt a fiasco, it was a sh*t show! And lets be honest, Nancy is a hypocrite. She owns a business that sells, and packs wild caught fish, but oppses waterfowl hunting because it takes place in "her"cove. I personally plan on writing comments in opposition to her proposal, and will do so fondly as I admire the ducks that were harvested in "her" cove that hang on my wall. Im also curious to know if DU would have something to say about possible trademark infringment on the seaduck unlimited name. Seems like a very convienient way to get hunters attention.

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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Ray View Post
    I need to oppolgize to the internet at large. On bended knee I promise to google before posting here or anywhere.

    Sea Ducks Unlimited is owned by Alaska Wild Animal Recovery Effort (AWARE) which owns the seaducks.org website and the seaduckinfo.org website. Both are based in Homer. Both collect published research and repost that as it applies to their agenda.

    Alaska Wild Animal Recovery Effort does not have a business license in AK. They are now a dissolved nonprofit as of 2011.

    Sea ducks Unlimited business license expired in 2011.

    Pioneer Alaska Fisheries business license expired in 1995.

    Coal Trading does not have a business license, and both "coal trading" corporations listed for AK are not in Homer but are disolved nonetheless.
    Hmmmm.....
    I will have to do some more research myself. I know Coal point is still running in Homer or at least it was last summer.
    http://welovefish.com/ is their website.
    If they are using business names of defunct corporations or non-profits what does that mean for their proposals? Could that mean they are not valid?
    Or can anybody make up a fake name and submit proposals under the fake name either a business or a person?
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody View Post
    That wasnt a fiasco, it was a sh*t show! And lets be honest, Nacy is a hypocrite. She owns a business that sells, and packs wild caught fish, but oppses waterfowl hunting bescue it takes place in "her"cove. I personally plan on writing comments in opposition to her proposal, and will do so fondly as I admire the ducks that were harvested in "her" cove that hang on my wall. Im also curious to know if DU would have something to say about possible trademark infringment on the seaduck unlimited name. Seems like a very convienient way to get hunters attention.
    I would be curious what DU would have to say, but I don't think there is anything they could do about it. After all the name of company is Sea Ducks Unlimited, not Ducks Unlimited. If it's a legit science based need to collect harvest data for population studies, migration patterns, ect. I'm more than happy to help provide that data. But I want to know where that data is going, I want to know what it's going to be used for, and who is collecting it.

    Another thing I have a problem with on this proposal is why do they need all the client data? What the heck is that supposed to be used for? The person putting in the prop has an agenda, anybody who has been following the K-Bay hunting proposal war knows this, so I have to suspect that there is an alternative reason here for wanting this data.

    Again, why aren't the ADF&G, USFWS, or Waterfowl Bios not asking for this info? Is this a private study? Who is supposed to build this system, and is there funding for it? Why aren't they asking for this info in HIP reports when you buy your federal stamp. Why make this a required mandatory program for guides in order to be abe to sustain their lively hoods? If you want harvest data, why not make it a voluntary thing, that any hunter or guide can log into a site ? That sounds like a much more reasonable system to me, and I guarantee you will have lots of hunters who are more than happy to assist. The way this prop is written seems like it's out to get the guides and deny them their license if they fail to comply.

    I get a letter from the USFWS every year asking me how many ducks I shot on what day, and in what region. They aren't asking for sea ducks, they are asking about all migratory birds. The way I understand it, is they take a sampling of duck hunters and send out these harvest reports, then compile the data and average it out to get harvest estimates. Last year they even asked for wing samples. USFWS already has a program, and seems to be happy with the data they are collecting, why is there an issue?


    Proposal 155 is the most dangerous, it's basically trying to get the possession limits reduced from a 3 day limit of birds down to a 1 day limit. And I admit, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but there is an error in the prop, and if it's passed as written there is a problem.


    ADF&G and the Feds allow us to possess 3 days worth of ducks in our freezers, our camp, or residence. As long as you don't have more birds than your daily bag limit while you are hunting, or traveling from the place that you were hunting to your vehicle, home, etc you're legal. This proposal is trying to redefine possession limit to say you are only allowed to have 1 days limit period. And this will be statewide if passed.

    Honestly lets read this for what it is. This is another attempt to make sea duck hunting in K-Bay unappealing for guided clients. The person putting in these proposals believes that a 1 day limit will shut the K-bay guides down and another attempt to remove hunters from said area, so the bird watchers can enjoy their ducks. (An end goal the writer stated in one of their earlier proposals). The problem is, they wrote it to include the whole state. We can not let this pass, I personally don't mind the definition of possession limit to be defined, who the heck cares! We all know what it means anyway, I just think the person writing these proposals thinks we are a bunch un uneducated crazy people just shooting everything up and leaving it to rot. This proposal here is flawed, it's insulting and needs to be shot down.

    Proposals 152-154 I have a problem with as well. The person writing these proposals has probably never eaten a wild duck before...actually I can almost guarantee it! The edible portions of one duck do not translate to other ducks. Ever tried to eat the wing of a teal? It's a tiny sliver of meat, same with the legs. The entire North American continent does not require salvage of the entire carcass, because those regs are written by people who understand how much meat is on a wild bird. These aren't farmed raised ducks that never fly, and are fed corn to fatten them up their whole life. These are wild birds that use up as much calories as they take in. Muscle on a duck is massed on the breast because that is what they need to be able to fly the way they do. Ducks do not have large muscles on their legs or wings because they don't need them. Wing muscles are compensated by the large breast muscles, and leg muscles are compensated by webbed feet. To salvage this tiny bit of meat would be like trying to cut at the tiny slivers of meat left on a backbone of a deer after you remove the backstrap. I do understand that a lot of guys do cook the entire duck, and I understand that bigger birds such as mallards, or canvasbacks have a bit more meat on them. Some people like to cook the whole bird because they like to stuff the body cavity with fruit, stuffing, or whatever. But lets face it, there isn't much left after you eat the breast, we aren't talking about chickens or turkeys here. The writer calls this an outdated proposal, it's dated because the if it ain't broke, don't fix it rule is applying. Another thing the proposal writer needs to realize is that a lot of these duck carcasses go to trappers, and dog trainers. I've donated the majority of my carcasses every year to trappers who are more than happy to recieve them. Oh, we could boil them down to soup, thanks but no thanks hun, I will decide how I'm going to eat my birds, and not have you dictate that for me.
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    I will go on fish and game web page and post a comment this is BS as state before if it isnt broken why fix it. If this women is who I think she is I had problems with her a least ten years ago when I was hunting china pout bay out of Homer
    Is it opening day of duck season yet
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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Well said duckslayer56!
    I am not sure the state can redefine the possesion limits? Isn't the definitions for waterfowl set by the feds?
    I would also say that if they choose to redefine Posesion limits via this proposal then all possesion limits statewide could be effected by this. Sprucehen,Ptarmagin etc. etc. Possibly even fish limits.
    A bad deal for sure.
    Might be fun to go into Coal point seafoods sometime and tell them you have several Sadie Cove seaduck breasts you would like to have vac sealed.
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    Both active Coal Point Trading business licenses have also just expired, but the grace period for renewal is pretty long.

    On the posession limits: as discussed the last time we went through this the Feds set the maximum and the state can manage anything less than that. Which is how we got into this stuff last time it passed.

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