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Thread: .460 S&W over the .454 casull

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    Default .460 S&W over the .454 casull

    Looking into things i see you can get a .460 S&W which will shoot the .454 and .45 colt. is that an intuitive choice over a gun which comes in the .454 which would only shoot the .454 and .45colt? i like the idea of having 3 calibers in one gun vs one that only shoots 2 but it seems like more people have the .454 casull then the .460 S&W. any reasons? Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-fang View Post
    Looking into things i see you can get a .460 S&W which will shoot the .454 and .45 colt. is that an intuitive choice over a gun which comes in the .454 which would only shoot the .454 and .45colt? i like the idea of having 3 calibers in one gun vs one that only shoots 2 but it seems like more people have the .454 casull then the .460 S&W. any reasons? Thanks.
    I have an "X" frame S&W .460SW, yes, all three cartridges can be fired from the same gun. The biggest reasons, I think, that the .454 casull is more common is;

    1) it has been around longer
    2) it has less recoil
    3) is the most recoil many can handle
    4) the firearm designed to shoot .454 weighs in muchs less than one designed to shoot .460SW

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    Quote Originally Posted by .338WM View Post
    I have an "X" frame S&W .460SW, yes, all three cartridges can be fired from the same gun. The biggest reasons, I think, that the .454 casull is more common is;

    1) it has been around longer
    2) it has less recoil
    3) is the most recoil many can handle
    4) the firearm designed to shoot .454 weighs in muchs less than one designed to shoot .460SW
    Agreed.
     
    I love the 460 and have 3 of them, I think itís the best hunting handgun out there. Just so accurate with the progressive twist rifling, powerful and versatile.
     
    I also have a stable of Ruger SBH 454s, also a great gun. If your looking for mainly a protection gun I think itís a better choice. To me they recoil harder than full on 460 because the gun is lighter and grip isnít as forgiving. Not at all the long range handgun that a 460 is but they are very shootable in usual handgun ranges.
     
    Depends a lot on what you want. 460 X-frame great for hunting and passable at protection duties, 454SRH great for protection and passable for hunting.
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    do you think accuracy of the .454 or .45 colt shot from the .460 is any different than when shot from the .454?
    "460 X-frame great for hunting and passable at protection duties, 454SRH great for protection and passable for hunting." thanks for the advice, i will mostly be carrying for protection.

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    They will shoot a 45 colt load they like as well as a 454 load they like and the 460 shoots just about any 460 load very well . . . The jump doesnít matter all that much because the barrels forcing cone lines things back up.
     
    Two things though.
    1>Two different power loads will shoot to two places, your sights will look at one or the other unless you sight in each time.

    2>When you shoot carbon builds at the end of the case, carbon is hard and abrasive. When you shoot a lot os a short case then switch to a longer one that extends past the buildup the case can embed it into the chamber walls, itís called ringing the chambers It happens with 357/38 and 44mag/44sp too but 454 and 460 are both operate at twice the pressure of most others . . . Swab the cylinders out before firing a longer round in them.
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    just came across some information on 'throating' and saw that a lot of guys with 45's felt it necessary to throat their guns. is that something that may plague the 454? btw, i've been really appreciative of the all info given...very helpful!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-fang View Post
    just came across some information on 'throating' and saw that a lot of guys with 45's felt it necessary to throat their guns. is that something that may plague the 454? btw, i've been really appreciative of the all info given...very helpful!
    No, the .454 is a modern cartridge and should have properly cut chambers. The .45Colt is a 140yr old cartridge and is plagued with oversized chambers and throats that can go either direction.

    That said, all the .454 gains you over the .45Colt (Ruger only ) is range. All the .460 gains you over the .454 is range. How much range do you need? If you're shooting critters smaller than Cape buffalo under 100yds, the .45Colt (or .44Mag) is all you "need".

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    454s are higher end guns built to higher standards than most 45 Colts, they are good to go out of the box.
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    Some are, some aren't. The Ruger's cylinder is built out of a more elastic steel than the .44's but it's otherwise the same. They're mostly fortified to handle the higher pressure. Like I said, if all you need to cover is 100yds, a good .45Colt (or .44Mag) will serve quite nicely.

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    Ruger SRH 454 cylinders are made of Carpenter Custom 465 Stainless and less elastic with far more tensile strength than the normal 410 stainless the 44mag/45 Colt cylinders are made of.
     
    Ruger SRH 454 barrels are made of Carpenter 15Cr-5Ni stainless and all others are normal 410 stainless. The 454 is an extremely tight interference fit to the frame and removal very often destroys the frame, 44/45 barrels are tight but do not destroy the frame when properly removed.
     
    The care taken in machine work and fitting of a Ruger 454 is totally on another planet when compared to their 44/45 SRH . . . 454 SRH is a far better built gun that should need nothing and 44/45 SRH often need some work because factory tolerances for them arenít near as tight.
    They may look the same to many but they are not the same at all.
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    The use of Carpenter Custom 465 is BECAUSE it is more elastic, along with the increased tensile strength. As far as the rest of its manufacturing, I'll need more than anecdotal info from a stranger. I have a .480 SRH and don't find it to be any better put together than any other Ruger.

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    The Stainless 454 Cylinder I put in my 45 Colt Redhawk has tighter chambers than the 45 Colt cylinder and the throats are .452-.4525 .452 boolit pushes through.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
    The use of Carpenter Custom 465 is BECAUSE it is more elastic, along with the increased tensile strength. As far as the rest of its manufacturing, I'll need more than anecdotal info from a stranger. I have a .480 SRH and don't find it to be any better put together than any other Ruger.
    Modulus of Elasticity
    410 stainless steel
    29 x 106 psi
    200 GPa
    Custom 465 stainless steel
    28.8 x 103 ksi
    28.4 x 103 ksi
    Fewer modulus of elasticity = less elasticity.
     
    They chose Custom 465 because of 454ís SAAMI pressure rating, SRH cylinder diameter, tensile strength, and machine ability.
    http://www.cartech.com/techarticles.aspx?id=1608
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    The Stainless 454 Cylinder I put in my 45 Colt Redhawk has tighter chambers than the 45 Colt cylinder and the throats are .452-.4525 .452 boolit pushes through.
    I've got a Redhawk 45 colt 5.5" it had .451 throats. I have a SRH 454 that has 454 throats.

    I opened the 45 colt throats too .4525........I use 452 in the 45 Colt, and 454 in the 454 casull.

    I have to keep my lead bullets separate from each other, wish it wasn't that way..
    "The older I get, the better I was."

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    Lets see a known gunsmith handgun forum sponser that can build one from scratch or someone the has zero info in their who I am folder. I'm with ya Mr. Fields. Can't wait till the bear threads start you we can learn what one looks like.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by travelers View Post
    I've got a Redhawk 45 colt 5.5" it had .451 throats. I have a SRH 454 that has 454 throats.

    I opened the 45 colt throats too .4525........I use 452 in the 45 Colt, and 454 in the 454 casull.

    I have to keep my lead bullets separate from each other, wish it wasn't that way..
    Curious. What model is your 454 SRH? Is it the "older" grey gun with the extractor pins or is it the newer non-grey/Alaska with the new extractor like this one?





    Here's the 45 Colt cylinder from the early? 4" Redhawk, not the later 4.25. Ruger only Loads were fired in 45 Colt cylinder. Fired brass slips back in the 45 Colt cylinder. Not so much in the 454.

    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

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    It's the older grey model.

    I've had 2 of them (both grey and older) and both had the 454 throats.

    I'd prefer .4525 throats, so it would match my 45 colt.

    I don't like that grey paint, or what ever it is.

    I haven't compared chamber sizes.
    "The older I get, the better I was."

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    can you get those wood grips on the new model? i love that look!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-fang View Post
    can you get those wood grips on the new model? i love that look!
    http://www.nill-griffe.com/News_22.html

    I found a discounted set on ebay several years ago. I've since sanded em down/rounded em out to fit my hand better and so they don't auger into my side on my hip. Not quite as purdy as they were but hey.... form follows function.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Here's the 45 Colt cylinder from the early? 4" Redhawk, not the later 4.25. Ruger only Loads were fired in 45 Colt cylinder. Fired brass slips back in the 45 Colt cylinder. Not so much in the 454.


    Yup a SAAMI spec chamber are . . .
    45 Colt
    4862Ē case head to .4806Ē at mouth with a nice 7* cone end @ 1.3978Ē

    454 Casull;
    .4797Ē case head to .4779Ē at mouth with an abrupt 30* cone end @ 1.4287Ē

    460 S&W mag
    .4800Ē case head to .4791 at mouth with a nice 6* cone end @ 1.9285Ē
     
    Colts SAMMI chambers are just fatter by design, intended to handle a lot of soot from black powder.



    Travelers do you know if yours came from Ruger with .454Ē thoughts? I have only seen .4525" thoughts in Ruger 454s, the 45s are all over the place but 454s Iíve seen have been real consistent.
    Andy
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