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Thread: Lets talk primers: diff between fed 210 and win WLR

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    Member Hunt&FishAK's Avatar
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    Default Lets talk primers: diff between fed 210 and win WLR

    All I need to know Is what's the difference? I want to try IMR 7828 powder in my 270 and 3006 loads but the guy told me ( from the Speer book) I have to use magnum primers. However my lee book and nosler #7 book tell me fed 210. And they say nothing about magnum primers. Confused I guess.



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    Member ekberger's Avatar
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    I'd say that for your 270 Large Rifle primers are all you need, not Large Magnum primers like Fed215, CCI250 etc, I'd not use those magnum primers for your rifle. I don't load for a 270 but load a lot for 280 Remington and 30-06; with both those cartridges I use Large Rifle Primers. For my 7mm RM, .375 H&H, and .416 RM I use Large Magnum Rifle primers.

    However, primers are not interchangeable whether you use large rifle primers or large magnum rifle primers. Therefore when you build your loads stick to one primer as you work up your data. In my experience Fed and CCI primers are close, Remington on the mild side and Winchester primers are the hottest. I've seen literature references that support this. I'd point you to that but I'm on the road at the moment and don't have my references at hand.

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    Member marshall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt&FishAK View Post
    All I need to know Is what's the difference? I want to try IMR 7828 powder in my 270 and 3006 loads but the guy told me ( from the Speer book) I have to use magnum primers. However my lee book and nosler #7 book tell me fed 210. And they say nothing about magnum primers. Confused I guess.
    I took a quick look at the book data on your powder selection and cartridges and it's a fairly full load since IMR-7828 is a slow powder. They offer that powder in SSC which is super short cut, I use it in large case cartridges often, it settles well.

    The 270Win and 30-06 are right in the area of 57gr of charge plus or minus a little depending on the powder selected. It is published somewhere, my mind is escaping me at this moment, that charges of more than 57gr or ball powders or cartridges shot in cold weather can benefit from magnum primers.

    I'm currently reading a very nice book by the name of:

    http://www.amazon.com/Metallic-Cartr.../dp/1571573712

    In this book there is a very comprehensive primer comparison using primers shot out of identical loads, 30-06 with 58gr of A4350 and 168gr SMK bullets. The only exception is the primer selected. Pressure measuring equipment is used to document the differences. Charts are published on pages 106-109 documenting primer performance.

    The Speer book #14 references CCI-250 primers when noted by an *asterisk* next to the powder for the 270Win loads. When using the charts in the Metallic Cartridge book I referenced above it shows the following:

    WLRM 63,900 psi
    WLR 61,600 psi
    Fed-215 61,400 psi
    Fed-215 59,400 psi
    Fed-210 61,100 psi
    Fed-210 59,000 psi
    Fed-210M 58,100 psi
    CCI-250 57,000 psi
    CCI-250 57,700 psi
    CCI-200 55,500 psi
    CCI-200 55,100 psi
    Rem 9.5 56,300 psi
    Rem 9.5 58,500 psi

    These are just a sample of a few of the primers they tested. In the book he tested most brands and several of each to establish a range and an SD value for each.

    In closing based on the data above it looks like your question about the difference between a Fed 210 and a CCI 250 could be answered by saying the Fed-210 made more pressure than the CCI-250 in this study. The thing I like about the CCI primers tested is that they had a lower spread in pressure between test rounds.

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    marshall: Thanks for the information. I've always liked CCI primers; my first choice when I see anything on the shelf.

    Edit: I've never had a problem with CCIs, not so with some of the others listed...may just be the way I load. I like to keep things as simple as I can and even with using CCI I end up with many different primers. With the current component shortage I've had to buy a lot of different items I don't normally use just to keep things on my shelf.

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    I missed the time limit: Edit #2: Lyman #49 used Winchester WLR primers for their 270 data including IMR-7828.

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    Member OKElkHunter's Avatar
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    Here's an effects study on the different types of primers. I found it interesting that for some loads the standard primer gave better results and for some the magnum gave better results and match primers were the most consistent.
    http://www.accuratereloading.com/primer.html

    I think, that just like bullets, you have to test different primers with different loads to find the sweet spot for the caliber and the rifle that you are loading.
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    Here's another interesting study on the subject. Something to keep in mind is that things change over time. A given CCI primer today may be a different animal from what it was 20 years ago.... Winchester primers have definitely changed in the past few years...
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    The only way you will know for sure is to test them side by side in your rifle with your loads. Anything else is just close guessing.

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    I remembered seeing something about this in one of my manuals so I looked it up. In the Nosler number four manual is says." Some sources suggest using a magnum primer in the 270 Winchester. While it is fine to do so, it is not necessary. Any standard large rifle primer is sufficient to ignite all the powder this cartridge can hold." This quote was from the comments from the lab section at the beginning of the load data for each caliber. This manual did not list a load using 130 gr. bullets and IMR 7828 for the 270 win. but did list it with 140 and 150 gr. bullets.

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    I have used both Fed 210M and WLR over a chroney
    I find the Fed are more accurate but the WLR have 50-65 more FPS velocity

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    Member marshall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomashoward View Post
    I have used both Fed 210M and WLR over a chroney
    I find the Fed are more accurate but the WLR have 50-65 more FPS velocity
    Just for fun try this. Lets assume your better accuracy with the Federal primer is due to the reduced pressure with that load just happening to hit the harmonics/pressure your rifle likes.

    Take your Winchester load velocity and divide it by the powder charge. Figure your velocity per 0.1gr of charge in that load. Adjust your new charge to hit the Federal load velocity. I'm betting your accuracy will return.

    Example:

    Lets assume that 44.0gr gives you 2650 fps with the Winchester. That is 6.02 fps per tenth of charge. If your accuracy came in at 2595 fps with the Federal then you would need 43.1gr of charge with the Winchester to hit the same velocity. This actually works assuming you aren't pushing the envelope with maximum charges. If you find a velocity that your rifle loves with a load combination you can adjust charges to suit different brass and primer manufactures if you have the desire to test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt&FishAK View Post
    All I need to know Is what's the difference? I want to try IMR 7828 powder in my 270 and 3006 loads but the guy told me ( from the Speer book) I have to use magnum primers. However my lee book and nosler #7 book tell me fed 210. And they say nothing about magnum primers. Confused I guess.
    Good Question. The diff, is that since the Mag. Primers are spose to be hotter, they should give you hotter ballistics. If your DATA shows Mag. primers, use them, if not, non-Mag primers.

    But it shouldn't make a huge difference if you do, so I'd use whatever you've got the most of. As has been suggested, work up with whatever you choose. 270 or pretty much anything, based on the 06 case, on down, doesn't need Mag. primers. UNLESS, you're using a BALL POWDER. Maybe, some exceptions that I'm not aware of, though.

    I use Mag. primers in my 30-30, because the load is with W748, a Ball Powder. I had delayed ignition with W748 and Non-Mag. primers with a load for 7x57. It happened twice. First time, it was tested in cold weather, and I thought that might have contributed. Second time, it wasn't cold.

    Granted, W748 isn't a choice powder for the 7x57, but I was using DATA, so it should have been OK, but I've not had sucha problem when using Mag. Primers. Also, this was a Cast Bullet load, though, not a Reduced load, and the charge didn't fill the case, well. So, who knows for sure, what the cause?

    Since, Loading Data for Ball Powder, often calls for Mag. primers, I concluded, that Ball Powder sorta requires Mag. Primers.

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