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Thread: Questions about supressors

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    Default Questions about supressors

    I am looking for information about a suppressor. Can they be changed to different guns? If I had a 22 rim fire, a 223, and a 22-250, could I have all three threaded and switch the suppressor between them? Would the same suppressor work with a 22 or 22 mag. in a pistol and still be useable on a rifle in 223 or 22-250 caliber? If they would work is it legal to switch them to different guns? I know nothing about them other than I would like to have one and I know about the tax stamp. Anything else you can tell me will be help full. Thanks.

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    Legal yes, the can is its own animal with its own paperwork.
     
    Practical from 22lr all the way to 22-250 I don’t know. The size of the can needs must be large enough to contain the volume of gas from the round. So a 22-250 can is going to be pretty large on a 22lr. Also 22-250 is still going to crack pretty loud because it’s such a fast round @ 3500-4000fps. Suppressor does nothing to quiet the sonic boom. There are a lot of guys that get a can and run it on both 308 and 300 blackout but 22lr to 22-250 I think is quite a leap.
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    Member greythorn3's Avatar
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    i believe you can put it on anything you want, its just the suppressor. but dont quote me on that. i would like one also. is it 200 for the tax stamp?
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    I can attest to the use of cans on different guns and in different calibers. One friend purchased a can made of steel and specific to the m-16 in .223. He also swapped this to a single shot Remington .22. Worked really well so long as subsonic ammo was fired in either, but the .223 ammo that subsonic would not cycle the action and standard ball ammo was loud. Another friend wanted to do the same thing. Only he bought a very small can, made of aluminum or some other light weight material. It was just a good as the big heavy can until he tried to fire full power loads and buldge and finally split the can. There goes 200 dollars. Don't know if it was size, the material or both but one worked and did not.

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    Andy, are you a SOT?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
    Andy, are you a SOT?
    I was but didn't pay the $500 for this year, likely will cough up August 1 again. I know who is current if you want to order something I can get you his number, don't know if he wants it on the web that he is.
    I’m FFL 07 so SOT 02 when I pay up, in other words I can manufacture NFA not just deal them.
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    Gotcha, finances aren't there yet, but my brother and I are working on a trust. It may be awhile till I'm ready.
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    For those of us that don't know what is FFL 07 and SOT 02? Do the cans have to be marked with serial number or anything else?

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    As stated above for the most part is correct when it comes to different weapons and one suppressor. The catch is getting one large enough to carry several cal's.... for instance 5.56 /223 would cover most cal below that. Will a CAN that is fitted in size to carry the gases of a 5.56/ 223 work on a 7.62/308 well maybe for a while until it gets burn out or blown off the encap.

    The process with a suppressor is to muffle and sub vent the gasses within the CAN. The larger the cal means more gas to suppress and larger area required to do so. The CAN's that are used on SR25 are about an 11/2 by 14'' to 16'' long. There is also differences in quality in suppresser as well that will vary in tone and recovery, the cheaper made suppressor will not last as long and will burn out faster with the heavier and hotter gas loads. As stated above someone had a cheaper suppressor and in time the gases overloaded the tub and split it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cast Iron View Post
    For those of us that don't know what is FFL 07 and SOT 02? Do the cans have to be marked with serial number or anything else?
    FFL 07 = Federal Firearms License title 7, title 7 is manufacturer of firearms.
    SOT 02 = Special Occupational Taxpayer class 2. This is an add-on to an FFL to handle NFA items, suppressors, SBR, SBS, AOW, and machineguns. There are 3 classes and they are dictated by what FFL type its attached to, 01 is importer, 02 is manufacturer, 03 is dealer. The SOT 03 is where people get the incorrect idea that NFA items are “class 3 weapons” but the class 3 only refers to the dealers tax license type.
     
     
    Yes a suppressor must be marked just like a gun, they are a stand alone item with their own paperwork. Here are the actual marking requirements, no matter who makes an NFA item it must be so marked.

    [Code of Federal Regulations]
    [Title 27, Volume 2]
    [Revised as of April 1, 2003]
    From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
    [CITE: 27CFR479.102]
    [Page 188-189]
    TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS
    CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
    DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
    PART 479--MACHINE GUNS, DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AND CERTAIN OTHER FIREARMS--Table of Contents
    Subpart G--Registration and Identification of Firearms
    Sec. 479.102 How must firearms be identified?
    (a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must
    legibly identify the firearm as follows:
    (1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise
    conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped
    (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual
    serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not
    susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must
    not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For
    firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002,
    the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number
    must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller
    than 1/16 inch; and
    (2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise
    conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped
    (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain
    additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not
    susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For
    firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002,
    the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information
    must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information
    includes:
    (i) The model, if such designation has been made;
    (ii) The caliber or gauge;
    (iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when
    applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;
    (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State
    (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer
    maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the
    firearm; and
    [[Page 189]]
    (v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in
    which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized
    abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of
    business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see
    Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.
    (b) The depth of all markings required by this section will be
    measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges.
    The height of serial numbers required by paragraph (a)(1) of this
    section will be measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of
    the character impression bottoms (bases).
    (c) The Director may authorize other means of identification upon
    receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate,
    showing that such other identification is reasonable and will not hinder
    the effective administration of this part.
    (d) In the case of a destructive device, the Director may authorize
    other means of identifying that weapon upon receipt of a letter
    application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that engraving,
    casting, or stamping (impressing) such a weapon would be dangerous or
    impracticable.
    (e) A firearm frame or receiver that is not a component part of a
    complete weapon at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed
    of by you must be identified as required by this section.
    (f)(1) Any part defined as a machine gun, muffler, or silencer for
    the purposes of this part that is not a component part of a complete
    firearm at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed of by you
    must be identified as required by this section.
    (2) The Director may authorize other means of identification of
    parts defined as machine guns other than frames or receivers and parts
    defined as mufflers or silencers upon receipt of a letter application
    from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that such other identification
    is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of this
    part.



    Section 7.4 The identification of firearms.

    7.4.1 Serial numbers.
    Each manufacturer of a firearm must legibly identify it by engraving, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing on the firearm’s frame or receiver an individual serial number not duplicating any serial number placed by the manufacturer on any other firearm.120

    The requirement that the marking be “conspicuously” placed on the firearm means that the marking must be
    wholly unobstructed from plain view.

    For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.

    7.4.1.1 What is an acceptable serial number?

    Alpha characters (letters), for example a name,
    are not acceptable as a serial number. A proper serial number may contain such characters or
    letters, but it must have at least one numeric character (number).

    ATF takes the view that marking “legibly” means using exclusively Roman letters (A, B, C, and so forth) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, and so forth).121

    Deviations from this requirement have been found to
    seriously impair ATF’s ability to trace firearms involved in crime.

    7.4.2 Additional information.

    Certain additional information must also be conspicuously placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel of the firearm by engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), that is, they must be placed in such a manner that they are wholly unobstructed from plain view.

    For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch.
    The additional information includes:
    (1) The model, if such designation has been made;
    (2) The caliber or gauge;
    (3) The manufacturer’s name (or recognized abbreviation); and
    (4) The city and State (or recognized abbreviation) where the manufacturer maintains its place
    of business.122

    7.4.3 Measuring the depth of markings. The depth of all markings is measured from the flat surface
    of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height of serial numbers is measured as the distance
    between the latitudinal ends of the character impression bottoms (bases).
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweepint View Post
    As stated above for the most part is correct when it comes to different weapons and one suppressor. The catch is getting one large enough to carry several cal's.... for instance 5.56 /223 would cover most cal below that. Will a CAN that is fitted in size to carry the gases of a 5.56/ 223 work on a 7.62/308 well maybe for a while until it gets burn out or blown off the encap.
    True but should point out that you can’t swap between 223 and 308 because of bore diameter. The holes in a suppressor’s baffles need to be very close to bullet diameter, within about .030 or .040” close. If too small you get contact and very poor accuracy and if too large it leaks high pressure gas by so isn’t suppressing that sound.
     

    By the way, that split can doesn’t always mean a $200 tax stamp down the drain. The suppressor can be returned to the manufacture for “repair” and they can legally “repair” it even if that means they sell you a new one numbered to go with your stamp and destroy the old one.
    Andy
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    Dumb question but why the need for a suppressor?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt&FishAK View Post
    Dumb question but why the need for a suppressor?
    It's a lot safer to shoot with a suppressor than without. Hearing loss is a major issue and even with hearing protection, suppression is a real benefit. It's also much less annoying to people around you if you live or shoot close enough to population that it matters. It's also really helpful in an indoor shooting range to reduce the concussion felt by both the shooter and more so by the people near by.

    Also, if you're hunting small game in groups, it helps to prevent the others from scattering. Say you are hunting squirrel. It's much easier to maintain the group of 2-3 if they don't scatter at the first shot.

    There are a lot of beneficial reasons to use a suppressor. Well that and it's just a cool thing to do.

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    You never get something for nothing. There are negative attributes to shooting with a suppressor too.

    1. Chamber backfeed. Higher than normal build up of shot residue in chamber.

    2. Higher operating temperatures.

    3. Higher operating pressures.

    4. Noticeably more weight at end if barrel.

    5. Close tolerances with bullet which could lead to partial strike or bullet debris strike that sometimes leads to damage of rifle barrel.

    The first three are just excessive wear and tear of your weapon.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt&FishAK View Post
    Dumb question but why the need for a suppressor?
    Probably not a reason to buy one alone, but they sure are nice to be next too at the range, then I fell bad when I shoot my .375...

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    Thanks Andy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyt-Hunter View Post
    You never get something for nothing. There are negative attributes to shooting with a suppressor too.

    1. Chamber backfeed. Higher than normal build up of shot residue in chamber.

    2. Higher operating temperatures.

    3. Higher operating pressures.

    4. Noticeably more weight at end if barrel.

    5. Close tolerances with bullet which could lead to partial strike or bullet debris strike that sometimes leads to damage of rifle barrel.

    The first three are just excessive wear and tear of your weapon.


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    To expand on your first point, that chamber feed back also results in gas blowback to your face many times. It's not horrible, but it's uncomfortable.

    The close tolerances aren't as critical as it seems. I'm sure it happens, but bullet strikes on the baffles are extremely rare in a properly designed and used suppressor. As for the pressures... That's a variable. Sure if you use standard loads, you will see increased pressures, but using standard loads suppressed sort of defeats the purpose. It's pretty common to use sub-sonic loads which are significantly lower pressure, so it's a trade off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cast Iron View Post
    I am looking for information about a suppressor. Can they be changed to different guns? If I had a 22 rim fire, a 223, and a 22-250, could I have all three threaded and switch the suppressor between them? Would the same suppressor work with a 22 or 22 mag. in a pistol and still be useable on a rifle in 223 or 22-250 caliber? If they would work is it legal to switch them to different guns? I know nothing about them other than I would like to have one and I know about the tax stamp. Anything else you can tell me will be help full. Thanks.
    I'm still in the research phase on suppressors so take this for what it's worth.

    While you can put a 22 centerfire suppressor on a rimfire, it is far from ideal. A centerfire supressor needs to be large enough and strong enough for the higher volume and pressure of gas than a 22 rimfire produces and you have a much larger and heavier suppressor than needed. But it's not just the added size and weight. A good 22 centerfire supressor is going to be welded construction which makes it better able to handle the high pressure gas and that makes it difficult to clean. You'll do the majority of your shooting with 22 rimfire because it's quietier and less expensive but that 22 rf ammo will gunk up your expensive difficult to clean 22 centerfire can. Also know that a 22 centerfire with a supressor still has a fairly decent report, somewhere along the lines of an unsupressed 22 rimfire shooting supersonic ammo.

    So the best advice is start with a top notch 22rf can that can be disassembled to clean and if and when you decide you want a supressed 22 centerfire, get a can for that use.

    So long as your guns have the same thread as the supressor you can switch them between guns.

    If you want one you should get your paperwork in, waiting time to get approved is pushing a year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyt-Hunter View Post
    You never get something for nothing.

    1. Chamber backfeed. Higher than normal build up of shot residue in chamber.
    Back pressure? Depends on the host and silencer being used. My 300 BLK SBR bolt gun with a Liberty Freedom silencer attached does not foul the chamber any more than unsuppressed. My Ruger MKII .22lr does foul more when the silencer is installed than without.
    2. Higher operating temperatures.
    Higher than what? Yes the silencer will be much hotter attached to your rifle after being fired than it would be sitting in your gun safe...
    3. Higher operating pressures.
    Pressure is an internal ballistic function. The pressure on the chamber and barrel are the same suppressed or not. The silencer/suppressor will extend the pressure curve slightly due to the retardation of escaping gasses. It will not, and can not increase pressure.
    4. Noticeably more weight at end if barrel.
    Yes, usually. My 300 BLK is used for sub sonic loads only so I did an SBR and cut the bbl down to 10 inches. It now has nearly the same weight and ballance as it did with a 20 inch bbl with identical performance.
    5. Close tolerances with bullet which could lead to partial strike or bullet debris strike that sometimes leads to damage of rifle barrel.
    Not true... baffle strikes in the silencer are real and can be very expensive, however the bullet has already left the bbl, and there is no risk to the bbl or action what so ever.
    The first three are just excessive wear and tear of your weapon.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    True but should point out that you can’t swap between 223 and 308 because of bore diameter. The holes in a suppressor’s baffles need to be very close to bullet diameter, within about .030 or .040” close. If too small you get contact and very poor accuracy and if too large it leaks high pressure gas by so isn’t suppressing that sound.
     

    By the way, that split can doesn’t always mean a $200 tax stamp down the drain. The suppressor can be returned to the manufacture for “repair” and they can legally “repair” it even if that means they sell you a new one numbered to go with your stamp and destroy the old one.
    Andy, with all due respect, that is not completely accurate. The silencer (can, suppressor, whatever) is comprised of multiple components, i.e. tube, core, baffles, end cap etc. One, and ONLY one of which is the serialized part. Most commonly the tube. If the tube (or whatever the serialized component is) is damaged beyond repair it is then game over... new suppressor/silencer, another 15+ month wait, and another form 4 and $200 tax stamp..
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