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Thread: Aviation To The Rescue

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    Default Aviation To The Rescue

    How ironic is it, climate scientist who are on a ship in the Antarctic to document global warming, are frozen in the pack ice.

    You couldn't make this up...ice breakers have given up on reaching the ship, now more than 15 miles from open water. The ice is over ten feet thick and a blizzard has packed on a bunch of snow...good thing it is Summer down there.

    They have constructed an ice-pad for a helicopter to come in and start shuttling scientist to an Austrailian ship 12 at a time. Terrible to be using one of those gawd-awful fossil fuel burning helicopters to rescue these idiots from their fossil fuel burning ship. All the while they are trying to convince us that all this fossil fuel burning is melting the polar icecaps....

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    KARMA! I have loved "the smell of money" (jetfuel) burning for 32 years now.

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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    Fail to see how this is "Karma" or that they are idiots because they are researchers for climate change... Never read anywhere that they were enviromental terrorist trying to make a point that fossil fuel is bad. Slow down and stop accusing just to accuse...
    Ignorance is not Bliss, it's insanity

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabliss View Post
    Fail to see how this is "Karma" or that they are idiots because they are researchers for climate change... Never read anywhere that they were enviromental terrorist trying to make a point that fossil fuel is bad. Slow down and stop accusing just to accuse...

    Well . . . . . may we at least discuss the money being burned in chasing this global warming smoke ring ???

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    alaskabliss, when you are at the end of the world in a relatively small vessel, and you venture in amongst the loose pack ice.( Are you following me here?) When the onshore wind begins packing the loose ice against your vessel, you had better be getting the hell out of there. In fact you probably should not have ventured that far into the ice, without having an 'out'... Remember where you are and how far help is away. The whalers and explorers figured this out back when sails ruled. You in you diesel powered vessel, just got caught asleep at the wheel. This deserves the "idiots" designation or description. Science trumps common sense once again. In case you aren't aware, they were trying to reach a place where a previous expedition had based. They were trying to compare the observations from the earlier expedition to present day conditions.

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    Alaskabliss...I agree with you. Just because somebody does research on climate does not mean they have identified us as the enemy. There are lots of scientist concerned about our climate trajectory. In many ways it is because of the unknown, as we appear to be headed into a climate future than is unlike any that can be readily modeled from the past, and the media likes to take the unknown and make it into a big hairy deal.

    But pipercub...I still agree that it is ironic. Funny situation, really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly 2 View Post

    Well . . . . . may we at least discuss the money being burned in chasing this global warming smoke ring ???
    Grizz, I will assume you are going on your opinion and not science. Every day is a new example of how our world has changed. Look at all the trash in the Ocean, Now maybe even a lot of radiation, Our emissions have with out a doubt contributed to some problems. Our fish are no where near what they were quantity wise. I am not a Greenie by any means Grizz, but also know that we are not doing ourselves and our earth a whole heck of a lot of good. I'm with AlaskaBliss on this one. I don't mind the research we are doing to help us find out what we can do to better our world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pipercub View Post
    This deserves the "idiots" designation or description.
    IMO.....the captain and he alone deserves this connotation, and by now I wouldn't doubt he's pretty much figured that out for himself......

    I have to ask those that might be in the "know"......is this ship history now....can it withstand it or will it be ground up and sunk by the sea ice?
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    My father was down there in the very early 60's. I remember him telling of a time they were moored to the edge of the ice shelf offloading supplies. He said they were going about routine ops under bluebird weather when they suddenly got notice from the weather guys that the wind was going to pickup. He said they scrambled and had just enough time to get stuff secured, personnel aboard and unmoored... and then they watched a several square mile chunk of the ice pack (to which they had been moored) break away and disappear over the horizon in only a couple hours time.

    It sounds like what happened to these guys was the same situation in reverse. Not sure how much you can do when the wind suddenly changes direction and a hundred square miles of ice comes over the horizon, pens you in, consolidates, and pins you against the shelf. I doubt this captain deserves the title of idiot for being unable to outrun wind driven ice pack. It's not like they were sneaking around in open leads and got pinched.
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    This is not the sixties or even the nineties. These ships have access to satellite weather/photos 24/7. Nothing should be able to sneak up on you out there. More than likely the Captain was being pressured to go beyond his comfort zone, by over zealous scientist with, got to get there itis. We just have to get the science, the pressure to produce after you have come so far....this is the science trumps common sense syndrome....

    Also the lead scientist tries to put a spin on it. Blames all the pack ice on global warming. I just love the irony of this...and at the height of their summer no less....

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    Quote Originally Posted by pipercub View Post
    This is not the sixties or even the nineties. These ships have access to satellite weather/photos 24/7. Nothing should be able to sneak up on you out there. More than likely the Captain was being pressured to go beyond his comfort zone, by over zealous scientist with, got to get there itis. We just have to get the science, the pressure to produce after you have come so far....this is the science trumps common sense syndrome....
    This response was predictable, almost verbatim, but I don't think it holds water. Your anti-science bias is noted. And you're entitled to your belief, but belief/opinion does not trump the reality of nature and physics.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    This response was predictable, almost verbatim, but I don't think it holds water. Your anti-science bias is noted. And you're entitled to your belief, but belief/opinion does not trump the reality of nature and physics.
    Nature and physics are elements that some people cannot see or understand. But they are always present. People tend to believe what others tell them or what they want to believe in their hearts. I will take Nature and Physics and adjust to what they tell me anytime.

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    I've always enjoyed physics and nature. I fly airplanes almost everyday in Alaska. 29 years of flying airplanes in Alaska. A few of those years were spent flying scientist around gathering data. This is real world experience, dealing with weather everyday. Over seven of those years were in the Arctic, winter and summer. I've flown as a spotter, guiding ships through the open leads of the Chukchi, Beaufort, and the Arctic Ocean. No Antarctic flying. But you know ice is ice and you better respect what sea ice can do. If you aren't anticipating it's next move, you have no business being there.

    And just in case you guys have been living off the grid in a vacuum, climate scientist don't have much credibility these days.

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    The purpose of this expedition was to duplicate the voyage of Mawson in 1911. He was able to sail up to the coast and offload supplies and people at the site of a present day French base. Word is that the ship's Master was pressured to keep going, because it would not look good if there was more ice now than before all the global warming of the past century. The Antarctic has been cooling overall, and the ice getting deeper in opposition to global warming theory for the past 50 years or so. Antarctic sea ice has been at all time high levels for several years now. How did they not know that?

    The green groups and media are now trying to call the mission a tourist voyage, since a few of the 74 people on board are just that. But it was highly touted as a scientific voyage, and had been previously reported in the science and environmental sections. Now they have tried to move it off those pages and call it a Russian tour boat, presumably to hide the hubris and incompetence of those on board. They have internet and satellite connection, and yet are asking skeptic groups for help with weather forecasting to help them get out. You can't make this stuff up.

    Read all about it here.
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/3...you-in-a-boat/

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cessna308 View Post
    You can't make this stuff up.
    So much irony, so little time.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
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    Quote Originally Posted by pipercub View Post
    This is not the sixties or even the nineties. These ships have access to satellite weather/photos 24/7. Nothing should be able to sneak up on you out there. More than likely the Captain was being pressured to go beyond his comfort zone, by over zealous scientist with, got to get there itis. We just have to get the science, the pressure to produce after you have come so far....this is the science trumps common sense syndrome....

    Also the lead scientist tries to put a spin on it. Blames all the pack ice on global warming. I just love the irony of this...and at the height of their summer no less....
    Interesting statement. I currently work in the Arctic and we do have some of the best weather guessing equipment available but we also still get stuck in blizzards that come up faster or sooner then expected. There are the times we batten doen the hatches in anticipation for a big blow and nothing happens. Predicting the weather is not a fool proof practice, even in aviation. The other part of the equation has already been sorta said but, when you get hit with a blizzard, with lots of ice around you, do you stay put and weather out the storm, or do you take the chance to plow through titantic sinking ice bergs to find open ocean in near zero visability? Hmmm, I would think only an idiot would try and get to the open ocean.
    As far as there reasons to be their, it's really not important. No one questions us when we take our planes or boats to varies places, even if we need help. There occupation means nothing, least there employed.
    The thing that is getting missed is the fact that everyone is ok, there is multiple countries involved and working together as a team and spirits are high. Its only some outside people putting a black cloud over a predictable blue bird day...
    Ignorance is not Bliss, it's insanity

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    If you are in the ice when the blizzard hits, you already screwed up. What packs up the Ice? You have to have a solid for the ice to pile up against. You have to have an onshore flow (could be tide or wind or both) to push the ice in. Don't get caught in between. Vigilance is required. You always have an out, a way out to the open water. If you don't, you don't go in... Getting caught between the shore (fixed) ice and the pack ice is a bad scene....or like this ship, the ice piles up and reconsolidates to a solid around you. It will take a big storm to break that ship out. Being that it's the height of summer down there, they should get a chance to free that ship. Not going to be a fun ride out of there though...

    I think it's hilarious that the climate warming proponents can't get to the previous expeditions camp. I don't really care if you can't appreciate the irony of that. The ice is supposed to be shrinking. The old expedition site should have palm trees growing around it.

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    The rescue is underway. 12 at a time in a chinese helicopter. They are leaving the ships crew of 22 on board. You rarely see the Chinese involved in these mercy missions. It is encouraging to see this. Hats off to them, they put in a good effort with the ice breaker and apparently have the only helicopter available to get these scientist off their icebound ship. They honored the universal law of the sea. Lucky for the global warming scientist.

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    By the way alaskabliss, when you are using the differant forms of satellite wx maps, it is not forecasting. You are looking at the actual weather or ice coming your way. Prog charts or forecasting is a differant science altogether, you are using computer models to make an educated guess on what the weather will be doing in the future.

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    Default off topic moment

    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    So much irony, so little time.
    as much as I like your sig line, I think I like this line far better. ;-)

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