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Thread: Canoe advise

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    Default Canoe advise

    Good evening everyone. I'm new here.
    I'm a bush teacher having an itch to get out of the village this summer and fall (camping, hunting, fishing) and I hate begging for rides. I have convince the wife to let me get a boat but I'm on a very limited budget. Ideally I'd like to get a Jon boat with a a 30 to 40 hp and eventually a 75 plus, however my job depends on students and one never knows if I'll get to stay where I'm at. So I've been thinking about a canoe with a small outboard. I'm a big guy (250 but losing, down from 300) and I have to travel pretty far for federal hunting land. My idea is to have someone pull me out, then I can hunt the sloughs and explore and get myself back to the village. I'm on the yukon river but I'd be hunting the innoko river area (area 21). I'd basically only be on the yukon to cross it. I don't mind paddling the sloughs and I want to spend as much time out as possible. If I get a moose I would try to float it out but I'd have a two way radio to get help (I do have hunting friends with boats in the village).
    I mainly want the canoe to get away and be on my own program. If that makes any sense. I don't want to have to depend on anyone to take me out all the time.
    Am I crazy or is this doable?
    Recap:
    location: yukon/innoko river area (mainly slough travel)
    Purpose: hunting/fishing/camping (set met checking? Or is that idea insane)
    time:weekends possibly a week if I can get time off during moose season
    what size canoe/outboard should I look into? Going try buy locally first.

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    Towing a canoe is tricky. Think of it like a big Repala lure. If I was in your shoes I'd look at an Aire Traveler inflatable canoe with a transom. I think it'll take a 5hp outboard. An inflatable is easier to ship out, easier to haul upstream in someones boat and will float out a moose as long as you don't have a huge camp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boud'arc View Post
    Towing a canoe is tricky. Think of it like a big Repala lure. If I was in your shoes I'd look at an Aire Traveler inflatable canoe with a transom. I think it'll take a 5hp outboard. An inflatable is easier to ship out, easier to haul upstream in someones boat and will float out a moose as long as you don't have a huge camp.
    I've looked into inflatables but have decided against them for the long haul. I'd only need a tow first time out and realistically that'd be to simply save time. The area I'd need to hunt is about an hour away in a Jon boat with a 30 hp motor. I really like the idea of a canoe for affordability. Im only on a time constraint because of my job. Summer no rush. If I can get a week off no rush. Eventually the canoe will be left at moose/fish camp after I upgrade.

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    My friend that suggested the tow mentioned throwing the canoe in the boat. He's got a 24' boat. I just don't want to become a statistic.
    The canoe idea was planted in my head when I encountered two guys that floated from shageluk to my village in an inflatable. With a moose and bear all their gear and both them. They paddled and floated the whole way. But they also had a week.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Get a 17' to 20' canoe and a 5 to 10 H/P motor and a couple good oars and you can travel anywhere,no tow needed.
    Here is a good thread of what can be done and Bob had no motor.
    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...aska-Coastline
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Get a 17' to 20' canoe and a 5 to 10 H/P motor and a couple good oars and you can travel anywhere,no tow needed.
    Here is a good thread of what can be done and Bob had no motor.
    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...aska-Coastline
    Thanks. I read that thread last night. I actually read quite a few of the canoe threads last night. One thing I noticed is most of the feedback dealt with

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Get a 17' to 20' canoe and a 5 to 10 H/P motor and a couple good oars and you can travel anywhere,no tow needed.
    Here is a good thread of what can be done and Bob had no motor.
    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...aska-Coastline
    Thanks. I read that thread last night. I actually read quite a few of the canoe threads last night. One thing I noticed is most of the feedback dealt with people on smaller rivers. The yukon is pretty intimidating size wise. I know it seems pretty docile but
    that current is no joke. Im going to start looking into those sizes.

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    I run an 8hp 2stroke on an Esquif Cargo 17'... I stiffened the hull up a bit to run faster. People have been running the Grumman canoes on the Yukon for years. Clipper makes a nice fiberglass 18'....you could buy one in Fairbanks and paddle it home. You could also buy one on the road system and put in at Nenana or Manley and paddle home. If you decide to leave the Yukon, you can always put it on a DC-6 or the barge....

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    Quote Originally Posted by pipercub View Post
    I run an 8hp 2stroke on an Esquif Cargo 17'... I stiffened the hull up a bit to run faster. People have been running the Grumman canoes on the Yukon for years. Clipper makes a nice fiberglass 18'....you could buy one in Fairbanks and paddle it home. You could also buy one on the road system and put in at Nenana or Manley and paddle home. If you decide to leave the Yukon, you can always put it on a DC-6 or the barge....
    Thanks pipercub. Can I ask what your range you get on the bigger motor?
    I was thinking about getting a jon/river boat on the road and riding it home, but the wife is not to keen on that idea...
    However, I was wondering how I was going to get a canoe to my village if I didn't find one here. I personally like the floating idea, but not sure if I want to be away from the wife and children that long (we have a new baby).
    I am kind of a canoe novice. I've been on a few lakes in the lower 48 in one, but never a river. Would the Nenana or Manly route be ok for a novice? What do you think the time frame would be? I am about 400 miles from Fairbanks. Not sure about Nenana. 350?

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    You can run a long ways on a tank of gas. Results are variable for distance. If you are heading upstream loaded or downstream empty. I run two tanks and take extra in five gallon jugs. I also have a fifteen gallon poly setup with an outboard pickup. If you wanted to, you could carry enough fuel to get from Fairbanks to Holy Cross. You can also buy fuel on the way. (expensive)... Everts would deliver a canoe or whatever to Galena fairly reasonable from Fairbanks. They go there hauling bypass mail on a regular schedule. That would shorten the run considerably.

    Paddling a freighter solo can be done, paddling with two would be a whole lot easier. The Esquif Cargo paddles very well with plenty of rocker and is very stable. I paddled mine solo with two young kids aboard. They are now old enough to help paddle at six and eight. I also had a dog on board and would stand up and cast fishing. The Esquif has never felt tippy.... If you are a novice paddler, you would want to find an experienced paddler to go along with, if you were tackling the Tanana and Yukon Rivers. The Tanana has many channels between Fairbanks and Nenana. After Nenana it stays in one main until just before the mouth, where it braids again. You could also shorten the trip considerably running an outboard down river and staying in the main current.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post
    I've looked into inflatables but have decided against them for the long haul. I'd only need a tow first time out and realistically that'd be to simply save time. The area I'd need to hunt is about an hour away in a Jon boat with a 30 hp motor. I really like the idea of a canoe for affordability. Im only on a time constraint because of my job. Summer no rush. If I can get a week off no rush. Eventually the canoe will be left at moose/fish camp after I upgrade.
    Then look at a Clipper Mac 18. It's stiffer than an Esquif, lighter to carry, hauls more weight and doesn't need to be modified. I run a 9.8 Tohatsu 4 stroke with mine. This would get you up or down the Yukon with a moose.

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    The Mac-18 is a well made square stern, it is narrower than the Esquif Cargo in the mid beam and stern. It will not be as stable as the Esquif. It is not lighter than the Esquif unless you buy the Kevlar version. The fiberglass version weighs a few pounds more than the Esquif. A few reasons why I didn't go with the Mac-18 was the cut down and narrower stern and the flotation compartment built in the stern. You cannot access the inside hull surface at the stern if you need to repair it. This is where you are most likely to damage the hull. The nice thing about Royalex is the flotation is built into the hull between the layers, so there is no need for foamed compartments...both of these canoes will do the job that you are describing, I can vouch for the stability of the Esquif but not for the Mac-18, I've only looked at them at Beaver Sports in Fairbanks. They appear to be well made canoes...(clippers) if you want to PM me your email, I can send you some pictures of my modified Esquif Cargo....

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    Quote Originally Posted by pipercub View Post
    The Mac-18 is a well made square stern, it is narrower than the Esquif Cargo in the mid beam and stern. It will not be as stable as the Esquif. It is not lighter than the Esquif unless you buy the Kevlar version. The fiberglass version weighs a few pounds more than the Esquif. A few reasons why I didn't go with the Mac-18 was the cut down and narrower stern and the flotation compartment built in the stern. You cannot access the inside hull surface at the stern if you need to repair it. This is where you are most likely to damage the hull. The nice thing about Royalex is the flotation is built into the hull between the layers, so there is no need for foamed compartments...both of these canoes will do the job that you are describing, I can vouch for the stability of the Esquif but not for the Mac-18, I've only looked at them at Beaver Sports in Fairbanks. They appear to be well made canoes...(clippers) if you want to PM me your email, I can send you some pictures of my modified Esquif Cargo....
    I should have stated Kevlar Mac 18. I owned a 17' Esquif Cargo and a Mac 18 Kevlar at the same time. The Esquif is a good canoe but it doesn't measure up to the Mac 18 period. The only thing the Esquif has over the Mac is that it can take a hard shot against rocks. The Mac can also take rocks but frankly it is too nice of a canoe to treat it like jetted Jon boat. The Mac Kevlar is very noticeably lighter. I know because I have carried and loaded both. The Mac 18 is 42" wide and only one inch narrower than the Esquif but 1" deeper. If I recall, my cargo and Mainer's cargo both measured about 43" wide, not the 44" the factory claims. The Mac 18 is definitely more stable than the Esquif. The Esquif has a more rounded bottom and feels far more tipsy than the Mac. There is more to canoe stability than width alone. The Mac 18 handles a 9.8 at full throttle easily. The Esquif starts oil canning about half throttle and is better suited with a 4hp or less. The Mac also paddles better than the Esquif. If I was running and dragging a canoe over shallow riffles and sharp rocks then I would choose the Esquif. If I was running larger rivers with a heavy load and needed more hp then I would choose the Mac. Both canoes have their strengths and weakness. I decided to sell one of the canoes because I didn't need to keep them both. I still own the Mac 18. Thought about selling it a couple months ago but have changed my mind. I can go anywhere with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boud'arc View Post
    I should have stated Kevlar Mac 18. I owned a 17' Esquif Cargo and a Mac 18 Kevlar at the same time. The Esquif is a good canoe but it doesn't measure up to the Mac 18 period. The only thing the Esquif has over the Mac is that it can take a hard shot against rocks. The Mac can also take rocks but frankly it is too nice of a canoe to treat it like jetted Jon boat. The Mac Kevlar is very noticeably lighter. I know because I have carried and loaded both. The Mac 18 is 42" wide and only one inch narrower than the Esquif but 1" deeper. If I recall, my cargo and Mainer's cargo both measured about 43" wide, not the 44" the factory claims. The Mac 18 is definitely more stable than the Esquif. The Esquif has a more rounded bottom and feels far more tipsy than the Mac. There is more to canoe stability than width alone. The Mac 18 handles a 9.8 at full throttle easily. The Esquif starts oil canning about half throttle and is better suited with a 4hp or less. The Mac also paddles better than the Esquif. If I was running and dragging a canoe over shallow riffles and sharp rocks then I would choose the Esquif. If I was running larger rivers with a heavy load and needed more hp then I would choose the Mac. Both canoes have their strengths and weakness. I decided to sell one of the canoes because I didn't need to keep them both. I still own the Mac 18. Thought about selling it a couple months ago but have changed my mind. I can go anywhere with it.
    Thanks for the info. So it seems that canoes are like ukuleles. Everyone has their preferred type/brand.

    What is oilcanning?
    Mid definitely be using it in a larger river then smaller sloughs. Not very many rocks.

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    The Esquif as it comes from the factory can handle a small outboard only. When you are under power the bottom of the canoe is pushed up if you get going too fast. Two things you can do to stiffen the hull does away with that issue. You can run at full throttle with a 9.8 or surface drive if you want after stiffening the hull. Royalex is made for running rivers. A $3000 Kevlar canoe is not. The Mac-18 is 40" wide with a narrow transom. It is a cut off 20' Mackenzie canoe. Made on the same form as the 20', which is why the transom is so narrow. I own a 17'6" solo Kevlar canoe. It is a dream to paddle, has a gel coat that makes it very slippery (fast) in the water. It is an expensive hull that I would not want to go bouncing off of things with. I would go with the Royalex or the fiberglass Mac-18. Not the Kevlar version...The stiffened Esquif is a better freighter than the Mac-18 hands down. Better hull design for running rivers and way better for paddling maneuverability when you are trying to sneak up on something. Tweaking the hull and putting skid plates on the wear areas of the Esquif, makes it a very versatile canoe....

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    Looks like a blow out sale...

    http://www.gunkholing.org/Images/old%20town.jpg

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    I wouldn't buy a new canoe in your circumstance. I'd pour over the used market. Lots of companies have made freighters in the past and you never know what you can find.

    However I have looked closely at the Esquif Cargo and the Mac 18. If forced I'd buy the Mac 18 in Kevlar. After the first few scratches it would be easier to abuse..if you buy in a light color the scrapes won't show as much. The cargo is too floppy...and reinforcement would take the weight up to hard to solo portage or car-top levels. This defeats a lot of the charm of the simple canoe.

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