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Thread: Diesel logic disconnect?

  1. #1
    Member BluNosDav's Avatar
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    Question Diesel logic disconnect?

    Been researching the opinions of diesel ATV's on this forum and others, and I keep running into an apparent bias that doesn't make sense to me.

    When it comes to vehicles like the Mudd-Ox, the diesel option is uniformly applauded and endorsed for it's power, durability, etc. But, when it comes to Polaris Rangers or Arctic Cat ATV's, the diesel option is panned because they will be hard to start in cold weather, or restart after water crossings, etc.

    Yet, it seems to me that a Mudd-Ox is much more likely to be operated around water or during colder weather on tracks, than wheeled ATV's, that are usually stored during the winter. So, why is it that one diesel machine is considered something to "avoid", while another diesel machine is called "awesome", for exactly the same reasons/conditions

    Thanx, Dave.
    "Luckily, enforcement reads these forums, and likely will peruse this one...Especially after a link of it is forwarded to them....." - AlaskaHippie.

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    I cannot come up with any legitimate reason for a diesel to be hard starting after a water crossing, there is no ignition system to get wet. As for cold weather starting, how cold are you talking, typical fall temps, or winter subzero temps? Typical fall hunting season temps would be a non issue if the battery is cared for properly.

    Much of the diesel vs. gas debate is predicated on ignorance by those that have zero or limited experience and/or knowledge of diesels. If you favor a diesel and are familiar with their requirements, get one.

    I have been a mechanic, gas and diesel, for more than 2 decades, have owned my share of gas engines and have been driving a diesel truck for 17 years in this stat. If diesels were such a problem as so many seem to believe I would be the first to ditch mine.

    Diesels are simple, durable and efficient, maintain them properly (just like any other maching should be) and they won't let you down.

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    They're heavy.

    If you want a sXs with a diesel look at the Kubota

    sent from my igloo

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    Could one reason be that water does not get in the diesel because the Mudd-ox floats and a ATV do not. If you get water in a gas engine you can pull the spark plugs. I doubt anyone carries tools to remove the injectors much less knows what to do.

    Diesel weight more than an gas engine and one thing you don't need is an ATV that is heavy and the cost WOW.
    In a Mudd-Ox you can have a really battery.

    Just saying.

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    Member BluNosDav's Avatar
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    Cowboy,

    Those Kubotas sure are heavy: the RTV 900EX weighs 1874-2006#, the RTV1100 is 2480#, and the 1140CPX (crew) is 2370#!
    (they must have been the designed by their tractor engineers)


    MacGyver,

    In the Polaris line-up, the diesel weight difference and cost is much less dramatic:

    Ranger 800 (gas) - 1237 lbs, $11,599
    Ranger 900 (gas) - 1342#, $13,199
    Ranger Diesel - 1435#, $12,999

    Ranger Crew 800 (gas) - 1495#, $12,499
    Ranger Crew 900 (gas) - 1571#, $14,399
    Ranger Crew Diesel - 1660#, $13,999

    Are these differences so large that they would sway your decision?

    And again, there's the same nagging disconnect that occurs when the Mudd-Ox is considered;
    because the M-O diesel option is much more costly, when compared to their gasoline engine machine, than the Polaris ATV's.
    Yet, few folks say "WOW" about that cost difference. Interesting . . . . .

    Thanx for the all the feedback, Dave.
    "Luckily, enforcement reads these forums, and likely will peruse this one...Especially after a link of it is forwarded to them....." - AlaskaHippie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BluNosDav View Post
    MacGyver,

    In the Polaris line-up, the diesel weight difference and cost is much less dramatic:

    Ranger 800 (gas) - 1237 lbs, $11,599
    Ranger 900 (gas) - 1342#, $13,199
    Ranger Diesel - 1435#, $12,999

    Ranger Crew 800 (gas) - 1495#, $12,499
    Ranger Crew 900 (gas) - 1571#, $14,399
    Ranger Crew Diesel - 1660#, $13,999

    Are these differences so large that they would sway your decision?
    Yes, but only saying WOW! about the cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by BluNosDav View Post
    MacGyver,

    Yet, few folks say "WOW" about that cost difference. Interesting . . . . .
    I have to admit my comment was based more on what I thought a diesel ATV would cost instead of looking it up. I appreciate the time it took to post the information.
    Mac

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    Member Alaskanmutt's Avatar
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    Remember, anything over 1500 pounds when being used on State lands requires a over land permit (if any one enforces the rules) for non highway vehicles

    "Using a highway vehicle with a curb weight of up to 10,000 pounds, including a four-wheel-drive vehicle and a pickup
    truck, or using a recreational-type vehicle off-road or all-terrain vehicle with a curb weight of up to 1,500 pounds,
    including a snowmobile(or other tracked vehicle), motorcycle or ATV, on or off an established road easement, if use off
    the road easement does not cause or contribute to water quality degradation, alteration of drainage systems, significant
    rutting, ground disturbance, or thermal erosion. (Curb weight means the weight of a vehicle with a full tank of fuel and
    all fluids topped off, but with no one sitting inside or on the vehicle and no cargo loaded. Most highway rated sport
    utility vehicles are within the weight limit as are most small ATVs, including a basic Argo.) Use of larger off-road
    vehicles over 1,500 pounds curb weight, and the off-road travel of construction and mining equipment requires a permit
    from DNR. An authorization is required from the ADF&G-Habitat for any motorized travel in fish bearing streams. "
    2000 Bayliner Ciera Express 2452
    5.0 Mercruiser Alpha 1

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    Member BluNosDav's Avatar
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    Thanx for the info Mutt,

    That means ALL of the "Crew" models (gas or diesel), plus the Ranger 6x6 models (1551#), would definitely need a permit from DNR, since the weights listed above are "dry" weights (add about 60# for full fuel). I'd guess that even a lot of the "smaller" ATV's would also tip the scales at over 1500#, if all of the bolted-on accessories: metal cabs, skid plates, winches, bigger wheels, etc, are considered part of the vehicle? (But, maybe those options are considered "cargo" that has been added to the basic machine?)

    Anyone got a grasp of
    (if any one enforces the rules)
    ???

    Thanx, Dave.
    "Luckily, enforcement reads these forums, and likely will peruse this one...Especially after a link of it is forwarded to them....." - AlaskaHippie.

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    I don't see an advantage or disadvantage, If your working in the oilfields, some require all vehicles to be diesel. This would be a reason why a Mudd-Ox would be great to have with a diesel motor. I run an argo and my buddy runs a mudd-ox (Gas). We have had great debates on whether a diesel mudd-ox would have any more power than a gas. Granted this is with limited knowledge of hydraulics. The engine turns the pump which creates pressure in the lines. After driving the mudd-ox it never really bogs down it just stops, when you over load it, so I don't know if the diesel would spin the pump any differently than the gas more to have an advantage. To me it seems likes the pump will put out the same amount of pressure no matter how much torque or speed is being applied to it.
    Im probably wrong, but just a thought

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    Quote Originally Posted by gokorn1 View Post
    I don't see an advantage or disadvantage, If your working in the oilfields, some require all vehicles to be diesel. This would be a reason why a Mudd-Ox would be great to have with a diesel motor. I run an argo and my buddy runs a mudd-ox (Gas). We have had great debates on whether a diesel mudd-ox would have any more power than a gas. Granted this is with limited knowledge of hydraulics. The engine turns the pump which creates pressure in the lines. After driving the mudd-ox it never really bogs down it just stops, when you over load it, so I don't know if the diesel would spin the pump any differently than the gas more to have an advantage. To me it seems likes the pump will put out the same amount of pressure no matter how much torque or speed is being applied to it.
    Im probably wrong, but just a thought
    Unless the pump was built for higher pressure or volume per diesel engine application, it will produce the same due to the pressure relief valve that is integral to the system. By virtue of design a diesel has far greater torque than a gas engine of equal displacement, torque is the amount a force it takes to rotate an object, so the diesel engine can turn the pump, or transmission, or driveshaft, etc., with less effort than the gas engine.

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    My track machine is all hydraulics I run around 2500 rpm when I need more power I increase engine speed and it go faster.

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    Member BluNosDav's Avatar
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    A different type of diesel disconnect that I also don't understand, is why Polaris doesn't offer a diesel version of their Ranger 6x6?
    It's their most specifically designed model for low-speed crawling while pulling a heavy load (i.e. diesel's intended envelope).

    Thanx, Dave.
    "Luckily, enforcement reads these forums, and likely will peruse this one...Especially after a link of it is forwarded to them....." - AlaskaHippie.

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    I just sold my 2008 AC 700 Diesel but what a machine. I used it every where up here in the interior and never had any problems. During hunting season it pulled a heavy loaded trailer very well plus had lots of space on the huge rear rack. It started fine in temps down to 15F and usually never that cold during hunting season. I did a few mods to it and carried jumper cables in case plus used fuel additive. I averaged 35mpg and over all a good ATV although not fast but fast enough for trails. I wish AC would have came out with power steering on the 700 diesel because its a heavy machine and easier steering would be a plus.

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    Default Diesel logic disconnect?

    They make a power steering kit you can buy but last time I looked they were up there in price

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