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Thread: End of the lead bullet?

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    Member Blackhawk .44's Avatar
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    Default End of the lead bullet?

    What do yall think about this? Do you think they will ban them completely? If they are successful in banning lead bullets they sure are going to get even more expensive.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/18...to-green-ammo/

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    Time to start stocking up...

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk .44 View Post
    What do yall think about this?
    I think Fox "News" is good for comedic entertainment, and not much else. This subject has been hashed out here several times already... The closure of Doe Run's primary smelter was strictly an economic decision, and deos not mean the end of the company's mines, secondary smelters, or production subsidiaries. That aside, the Doe Run primary smelter is only one of more than a dozen primary smelters in North America, and it's production volume was a small percentage of the whole. And recycling (secondary smelters) accounts for the majority of lead production; the need for primary smelters is constantly being reduced. The bullet market accounts for only 3% of lead industry production, it's a very small drop in the bucket. The industrial use of lead is not going away any time soon.
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    I think it is inevitable if this environmental and anti-gun trend continues in DC.
    The big question is: will you even be able to use the lead that you have to make bullets, or will they make shooting lead completely illegal. My guess is that they will first try to price shooters out by restricting the purchase of lead, then they will make the alternative too expensive to buy.
    The political climate must change, or shooters are screwed either sooner or later.

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    Do I think they will EVENTUALY ban lead bullets completely? Yes, most certainly they will. That being said, there is an awful lot of information in that Fox report that is misleading, mistaken, or completely wrong. Also, the closing of the Doe Run plant will have little to no effect on bullet production from most major manufactures (according to the manufactures themselves) due to the fact that they utilize lead from recycled sources and not the type of lead produced at Doe Run. That doesn’t change the fact that lead is increasingly viewed as an environmental toxin and that ever increasing pressure from the green lobby in conjunction with an over reaching bureaucracy, will undoubtedly result in an eventual ban on lead in most applications. How soon will that happen? Your guess is as good as mine. A series of Republican victories in the senate, house and perhaps the presidency may forestall a total ban for many years... then again, the continuation of liberal lead government is quite likely to accelerate a ban, potentially to the point where it may become an issue during the next decade. The above is my opinion only..
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    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    I think it is inevitable if this environmental and anti-gun trend continues in DC.
    The big question is: will you even be able to use the lead that you have to make bullets, or will they make shooting lead completely illegal. My guess is that they will first try to price shooters out by restricting the purchase of lead, then they will make the alternative too expensive to buy.
    The political climate must change, or shooters are screwed either sooner or later.
    I think the answers to your questions are no and yes. If a ban becomes reality I cannot imagine a clause or exception that would allow for any lead bullet use on public land. Remember that in California this has been portrayed and put forth as sensible regulation designed to conserve and protect endangered species as well as preventing human exposure and poisoning thru the ingestion of contaminated game meat.

    Here in Alaska we need look no further than the cleanup project at the old Kincaid park shooting range in Anchorage for a recent example of environmental hysteria in regards to lead contamination from sporting use. At the time, reading the stories and associated commentary in the ADN, one would think that we were dealing with a government "super site" with epic levels of highly toxic contamination spewing forth from every square inch of ground...

    It doesn’t take a crystal ball to see that as additional constraints and regulations are directed toward the production and use of lead, that demand will decrease as alternative materials become available and as a result, supply will decrease and prices will rise. Eventually we won't have to worry about whether or not it is "legal" for us to cast and shoot our own bullets as the traditional supply chain for the material will dry up to the point that its use for bullets will become cost prohibitive.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    I think Fox "News" is good for comedic entertainment, and not much else.
    I agree with this, but would add that their comedic ability is surpassed by the likes of CBS, MSNBC, CNN, et cetera ad nauseam.... There is much too much chaff and altogether too little wheat in every news outlet.
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    I read the article, and I don't find it "misleading". Not in the slightest.

    It is a dire prediction, and some folks might find it a little strong. If you do, I wonder where you've been lately. Look at what has happened in the past. Is the closing of that plant meaningless? Why was it necessary? Was it really necessary? No, not anymore than the regulations were necessary.

    Look at what the Army is doing, (according to the article) Is that meaningless? I don't think so.

    Read this,,,, (From the article)
    ************************************************** ********
    "In 2010, Doe Run settled with the EPA and state regulators for $65 million and a pledge to close the 120-year-old smelter by year's end. Doe Run General Manager Gary Hughes said the company tried to bring its smelter into compliance so it could continue to produce lead products, but abandoned plans in 2012 due to federal regulations.

    "We hoped to be building another such plant by now; however, constructing a full-scale plant, given other regulatory compliance spending requirements, puts our company at financial risk," he said."

    ************************************************** ************
    The EPA forced the plant/company out of business. Yeah it "was strictly an economic decision" alright. One that was forced upon them by the regulations/regulators.

    If we take the attitude that this article is just sensationalizing, Incorrect, much to-do about nothing, and don't get a little bit excited about it, and do something about it, a lead ban is all the more likely.

    If because of such a ban, there will be problems with uses for lead other than bullets, doesn't mean there won't be a ban. If there are other sources of Lead, do you think THOSE will be IGNORED? I don't.

    As the article says, some states have already banned lead bullets. Why would anyone want to deny the way things are headed?

    It's a great article that states the same things that have been said other places. It is not incorrect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    I think Fox "News" is good for comedic entertainment, and not much else. This subject has been hashed out here several times already... The closure of Doe Run's primary smelter was strictly an economic decision, and deos not mean the end of the company's mines, secondary smelters, or production subsidiaries. That aside, the Doe Run primary smelter is only one of more than a dozen primary smelters in North America, and it's production volume was a small percentage of the whole. And recycling (secondary smelters) accounts for the majority of lead production; the need for primary smelters is constantly being reduced. The bullet market accounts for only 3% of lead industry production, it's a very small drop in the bucket. The industrial use of lead is not going away any time soon.
    Really? I was under the impression this was the last one in the country?


    Ike

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    Who was in office when non toxic shot came into effect for waterfowl?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    The EPA forced the plant/company out of business. Yeah it "was strictly an economic decision" alright. One that was forced upon them by the regulations/regulators.
    The Herculaneum plant is not meeting requirements of the state of Missouri or the Federal government. The choice to close the plant rather than put more money into it, was just that, a choice, a financial decision. Companies make them all the time. They weren't forced to do anything. The Doe Run Company is only closing the Herculaneum plant, they are a very large company and they're not going out of business.
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    Yep, it was a financial decision. They chose to close the doors because they couldn't make money under the state and federal regulations. After all they could have spent a bunch of money complying with regs and then not made a profit. Yep their closing the doors had nothing to do with regulations. What I'm still trying to figure out is where all this lead came from that we are now contaminating the earth with. Did it get brought back from the moon or is there a space mining operation that I'm not aware of. Please don't try to tell me it has been here on the earth all this time and is just now starting to contaminate things.
    I think it's just another business that will be outsourced to a foreign country just like a bunch of others that have been regulated out of our country. Yay Obama Go Obama. You have almost destroyed this country. Keep up the good work Komrad Obama.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    Yep, it was a financial decision. They chose to close the doors because they couldn't make money under the state and federal regulations. After all they could have spent a bunch of money complying with regs and then not made a profit. Yep their closing the doors had nothing to do with regulations. What I'm still trying to figure out is where all this lead came from that we are now contaminating the earth with. Did it get brought back from the moon or is there a space mining operation that I'm not aware of. Please don't try to tell me it has been here on the earth all this time and is just now starting to contaminate things.
    I think it's just another business that will be outsourced to a foreign country just like a bunch of others that have been regulated out of our country. Yay Obama Go Obama. You have almost destroyed this country. Keep up the good work Komrad Obama.
    What does any of this rant have to do with shooting, let alone shooting in Alaska?
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Not a bit more than your last one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    What does any of this rant have to do with shooting, let alone shooting in Alaska?
    If you don't know the answer, you are part of the problem.
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Music Man View Post
    If you don't know the answer, you are part of the problem.
    You're correct; if you don't know the answer, you're part of the problem. The first question was "would the closing of the Herculaneum smelter be "the end of the lead bullet?". The answer is NO; it will have no impact on the availability of lead for bullets whatsoever. Next question; what does any of this have to do with Alaska shooting? Maybe you can answer that one, MM....think real hard.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
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    So, what does rant #11 have to do with shooting, let alone shooting in Alaska? I think one good unrelated rant deserves another.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    So, what does rant #11 have to do with shooting, let alone shooting in Alaska? I think one good unrelated rant deserves another.
    You're going to try to characterize rebutting falsehoods as ranting, eh? That's a stretch.

    The fact is that the closing of the Herculaneum smelter will have virtually zero effect on the availability of lead for bullets in the U.S., period.

    Here's some more reading from people who have a clue:

    http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2...ierra-bullets/

    http://bearingarms.com/its-the-end-o...d-i-feel-fine/
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
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    I didn't see anything in post 11 about the plant closing having any effect on lead bullets or anything else related to shooting. All I got was your opinion that the closure wasn't regulation related which I believe to be false and I believe most others here would agree.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    I didn't see anything in post 11 about the plant closing having any effect on lead bullets or anything else related to shooting.
    There's nothing about the premise of this thread that has anything to do with shooting, Alaska or otherwise. That a multinational company chose to close an antiquated smelter in Missouri, rather than bring it up to code, is irrelevant to shooting. And the assertion that the EPA is forcing the company out of business is absurd. The company is not going out of business, far from it. You guys are all worked up and cackling like a bunch of hens about nothing.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

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