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Thread: Aerial scouting, would it be legal? Probably not, but think of the possibilities.

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    Member DanC's Avatar
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    Default Aerial scouting, would it be legal? Probably not, but think of the possibilities.

    Saw on television tonight that Amazon wants to use unmanned drones to make package deliveries. I didn't know they were available as small as the prototype they demonstrated. A quick search for personally affordable drones show several designed to carry video cameras. For example: http://www.uavdirect.com/Phantom-UAV...-p/phantom.htm

    Think of the possibilities:

    Is there a moose in that valley?
    Is that ram legal?
    Where did that caribou herd go?
    Where are the bison hiding?

    And more:

    Scouting rapids
    Searching for river crossing
    Etc.

    But there are probably laws against it.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Saw on television tonight that Amazon wants to use unmanned drones to make package deliveries. I didn't know they were available as small as the prototype they demonstrated. A quick search for personally affordable drones show several designed to carry video cameras. For example: http://www.uavdirect.com/Phantom-UAV...-p/phantom.htm

    Think of the possibilities:

    Is there a moose in that valley?
    Is that ram legal?
    Where did that caribou herd go?
    Where are the bison hiding?

    And more:

    Scouting rapids
    Searching for river crossing
    Etc.

    But there are probably laws against it.
    It is probably a "new technology" that should be addressed a bit more specifically in the regs for sure. The existing regs could be stretched a bit to cover it, but might be a bit "grey" if taken to court. Restrictions such as the restriction on use of radio communications may apply for something like this since you would be using some form of radio control for the drone. Again, that would be a bit of a stretch, but they probably did not envision the readily available technology we have available to us today.

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    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    I think that the radio communications rule fits directly here. Just the same as if your buddy was flying his cub around and talking to you with a handheld. Not much of a legal leap in my opinion.
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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Why would it be any different than using an airplane. You cannot fly (scout) and hunt the same day. Manned or unmanned, you can use the info gathered the next day.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Why would it be any different than using an airplane. You cannot fly (scout) and hunt the same day. Manned or unmanned, you can use the info gathered the next day.
    Except that the regs say you cannot hunt until "...3:00am the day following the day you have flown." It doesn't say specifically that you can't use an airplane, just that you can't hunt or help another hunter the same day you have flown. Since a drone is unmanned, you would not have flown thus would not fall under that regulation as described in the regs.

    I do think the radio communications part would cover it as mentioned above, but it wouldn't hurt to add something about the use of remotely controlled vehicles to the restrictions. Easy to do.

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    Member Meanderthal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Why would it be any different than using an airplane. You cannot fly (scout) and hunt the same day. Manned or unmanned, you can use the info gathered the next day.
    I think that your application of the "same day airborne" law works better than the radio communication prohibition since only communications which guide onto game are prohibited. That leaves a lot of room for plausible deniability.

    They would have to amend the law to make it so though. The current iteration only seems to cover an individual who flew.

    Sent from my Obama phone while eating EBT lobster.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meanderthal View Post
    I think that your application of the "same day airborne" law works better than the radio communication prohibition since only communications which guide onto game are prohibited. That leaves a lot of room for plausible deniability.

    Sent from my Obama phone while eating EBT lobster.
    I don't see how the restriction on radio communications is limited to just guiding onto game. It doesn't get that specific in the regulations, just that it can't be used to help in the taking of game which could cover a lot of uses.

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    Member Meanderthal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    I don't see how the restriction on radio communications is limited to just guiding onto game. It doesn't get that specific in the regulations, just that it can't be used to help in the taking of game which could cover a lot of uses.
    After re-reading the regs I see your point but "they (communications equipment) may not be used to aid in taking of game" doesn't make a very strong statement. If one were to interpret it broadly then everyone who listens to the unit 13 caribou hotline would be guilty.

    As always the regulation book is only a summary and one would have to refer to the actual statutes for specifics.

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    just that you can't hunt or help another hunter the same day you have flown.
    You cannot HELP another hunter the same day you have flown. That says the INFORMATION is regulated, just like the person. Information gathered by unmanned aircraft would be subject to the same regulation.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    You cannot HELP another hunter the same day you have flown. That says the INFORMATION is regulated, just like the person. Information gathered by unmanned aircraft would be subject to the same regulation.
    The key part of that is "you have flown". If it is unmanned, then you have NOT flown. That is why the same day airborne reg would not apply unless it is written differently in the statutes.

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    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    I think we can all agree that if not directly illegal right now, the intent of the law is the same. It at least should not be legal. I think that too much would be spent on lawyers to defend ones self, and it would only serve to prompt a law change.
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    Maybe we need a new thread: "What round for a drone?" Two classes...one for shooting an animal with an armed drone and one for shooting down a pesky drone.

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    You fly a drone. Once you finish flying you have flown. Drones are flown by pilots just like regular aircraft except the cockpit isn't in the vehicle.

    The Amazon commercial was a joke....

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    I have two co-workers that fly the quad-copters recreationally. One flies with a GoPro on it, but has to use line-of-sight or a GPS programmed route to fly. Obviously the video is downloaded later. The other though has a set of ??goggles?? of sorts reading from an on board camera. He can fly outside line of sight wearing the goggles. I'm not sure on what their range is for either.

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    Member Meanderthal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post

    The Amazon commercial was a joke....
    This doesn't look like a joke to me: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2...ivery/3799021/

    Jeff Bezos seems to think that 4 or 5 years is possible but I'm calling BS on that prediction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meanderthal View Post
    This doesn't look like a joke to me: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2...ivery/3799021/

    Jeff Bezos seems to think that 4 or 5 years is possible but I'm calling BS on that prediction.
    Drug deals for sure.

    I think a person could legally use a drone for day-before surveillance, which would be pretty current for moose, though not so much for other animals that are on the move. But IMO it is reaching a point where it has become so sophisticated that the mystique behind hunting is gone along with woodsmanship. Not a type of hunting I would enjoy.

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    Several western states have addressed this issue with regulation to outlaw drones for hunting /scouting. I am pretty sure Colorado has outlawed the potential practice. AKBHA has brought the issue up (though out of cycle and no action is anticipated) with the BOG, and will certainly have input in cycle when the statewide proposals are called for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    Several western states have addressed this issue with regulation to outlaw drones for hunting /scouting. I am pretty sure Colorado has outlawed the potential practice. AKBHA has brought the issue up (though out of cycle and no action is anticipated) with the BOG, and will certainly have input in cycle when the statewide proposals are called for.
    Thanks for the update. I'm glad they are looking at it specifically. As this thread demonstrates, albight on a very small scale, there is some room for clarification in the regs if it is already covered by an existing reg or, probably easiest, to address it specifically in a new bullet item if the intent is to make it illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    But IMO it is reaching a point where it has become so sophisticated that the mystique behind hunting is gone along with woodsmanship. Not a type of hunting I would enjoy.
    What is the difference between locating an animal from a cub, thru binoculars, or from a cam or tape on a drone. Any joker with RC experience can probably use a drone. How is that "sophisticated? The hunter still has to navigate to and get within range of his quarry.
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    What is the difference between locating an animal from a cub, thru binoculars, or from a cam or tape on a drone. Any joker with RC experience can probably use a drone. How is that "sophisticated? The hunter still has to navigate to and get within range of his quarry.
    Navigating to and getting close enough to shoot is only part, and sometimes only a very small part, of hunting. LOCATING animals in the first place is a huge part of hunting which is where the sophistication comes in. Like you said, any joker can probably operate a drone, it takes a lot more work to locate animals without some aerial viewpoint (finding and tracking animal sign, calling in an animal, covering territory to physically come across them, etc...).

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