Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 61

Thread: Alaska Wildlife Trooper set legal snares despite lack of landowner permission

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    3,246

    Default Alaska Wildlife Trooper set legal snares despite lack of landowner permission

    Wow what an ass. The trooper!!!

    Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2013/11/29/320412...#storylink=cpy

  2. #2
    Member Tearbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    1,986

    Default

    Well no wonder there's a shortage of moose heads...

    I really don't understand why trap lines are sometimes set near populated areas in the first place, with the chance of catching someones dog or cat.
    "Grin and Bear It"

  3. #3

    Default

    Jim West's attorney will need to depose the trooper for deposition.

  4. #4
    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Mat-Su
    Posts
    2,150

    Default

    Personally I have less of a problem with the snares on unposted private property than I do with dumping carcasses and moose heads on known private property. I happen to know both of these guys and they are decent folks, but I do agree that there's a time and a place to NOT trap when it has potential to give trappers a black eye.

    the dogs and cats arguement always bugs me. There is no reason for dogs or cats to be running around loose and unsupervised. To do so, you have shown that you don't care enough about them to own them. It is true that a supervised dog off the leash can get caught, but then you would be there to release it..

  5. #5
    Member Tearbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    1,986

    Default

    There may be a reason for the dog or cat to be running loose on their owners private property, a guard dog, or barn cat comes to mind. Some may escape their confines and run off unsupervised as well, against the owners wishes. IMO...I just feel that there is no need to set traps in an area that is populated.
    "Grin and Bear It"

  6. #6
    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Mat-Su
    Posts
    2,150

    Default

    I do agree that trapping near homes generally is a bad idea, but probably for different reasons than you. I would consider barn cats to be feral and a nuisance. "Guard dog" is a word loosely defined as " my dog deserves to roam free" or " he doesn't listen so I let him do what he wants", lol. Kind of like what a "service dog" has become.

    i don't condone this particular case though. Putting in bait piles was just dumb, IMO.

  7. #7
    Member Tearbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    1,986

    Default

    That's o.k. if you have a different definition of guard dogs than I do, mine do not roam free anywhere but on our property, are trained well, and don't just get to do what they want, they do what we want them to, which is to protect the area against intruders, thieves, and Jehovah's Witnesses...also on the barn cats, which are not always wildcats waiting to jump on your head when you go to the barn, and they are friendly ones, serving their purpose by catching unwanted mice.

    If I was going to set some traps in a populated area with homes nearby, I would find out whose property it was first, and get permission before setting them.
    "Grin and Bear It"

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    4,034

    Default

    Catching someone's dog or cat is definitely high on my list of things to avoid, partly because I love dogs and cats and partly because I don't want to be THAT GUY in the paper. Definitely seems like a bad choice for someone who likely fields this kind of complaint in his work. Unfortunately its probably very difficult for a disabled person to find a spot to work that isn't close to someone's home, bad deal all around.

  9. #9
    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Mat-Su
    Posts
    2,150

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tearbear View Post
    .

    If I was going to set some traps in a populated area with homes nearby, I would find out whose property it was first, and get permission before setting them.
    I agree with you...

    and I didn't mean to imply that your dog wasn't a real guard dog, just speaking in general...

  10. #10
    Member Tearbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    1,986

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dkwarthog View Post
    I agree with you...

    and I didn't mean to imply that your dog wasn't a real guard dog, just speaking in general...
    Well you are likely right about the 'in general' part...and it's sad to know that some dog owners just open the door and let them out to roam far from their property, and get into trouble.
    "Grin and Bear It"

  11. #11
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tanana Valley AK
    Posts
    7,217

    Default Ethics are for other people...

    Ellis and Cyr knew who the owners and tenants of the land are, and they knew it was posted on the front side by the road. So, they accessed the land from the High School side at the back where it wasn't posted, because they knew technically that wasn't illegal and they could get away with it as long as they didn't get caught...

    The Alaska Trappers Association Code of Ethics, Number Four: get landowner permission before trapping on private land...

    "Ellis, former President of the Alaska Frontier Trappers Association" when asked about the Code of Ethics, states that code was structured for the Lower 48 and isn't necessarily applicable here. "A lot of what would apply in the Lower 48 doesn't apply up here," he said. "If (Jordan) had made it known she didn't want me on there, then certainly I would have honored that. But otherwise it's fair game."

    This guy's sense of ethical behavior pretty well speaks for itself. Good thing he doesn't represent the trapping community as a whole, eh?
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

  12. #12
    New member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Eagle River
    Posts
    2,022

    Default

    How are the sets legal if they are done without the express permission of the landholder??? No permission equals tresspass and tresspass is a crime.

  13. #13
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tanana Valley AK
    Posts
    7,217

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .338WM View Post
    How are the sets legal if they are done without the express permission of the landholder??? No permission equals tresspass and tresspass is a crime.
    Alaska statute language is such that the burden is on the the landowner to post the entire perimeter of the property. If the point you enter the property is not posted, then legally it's not trespassing until you're caught, told to leave, and either you refuse or return in the future, after having been told you're not welcome.

    These guys knew that full well, and took advantage of it.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

  14. #14
    Member 4merguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
    Posts
    9,748

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .338WM View Post
    How are the sets legal if they are done without the express permission of the landholder??? No permission equals tresspass and tresspass is a crime.
    "Supposedly" as was said, you don't need permission to enter a property IF the property isn't posted properly. And in this case "properly" is the key word so it would seem.....

    Put it this way..... If you have say 5 acres in an area that is legal to hunt moose and a hunter kills a legal bull on your property, then, unless you have signs all around the property saying no trespassing, the hunter is legal to do so....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

  15. #15
    Member Tearbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    1,986

    Default

    Wonder if that property will be posted properly now? In my experience with my own personal & private, properly posted property, those signs are ignored by most, and you pretty much need a physical barrier, to keep those that can't read, out of there.
    "Grin and Bear It"

  16. #16
    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Mat-Su
    Posts
    2,150

    Default

    Here is a hypothetical situation that I could see happening:

    trapper makes a set on unposted private land (legal set), property owner comes along finds the set and then posts the land legally. Trapper is then by law going to be guilty of an illegal set (set can't be checked). If it an illegal set, the property owner could remove it legally I would think.

    I know a guy who someone put a snare on the trail leading out of his yard for training his dog team. When the musher removed the snare, the trapper pressed charges and won. It's a screwed up twisted world sometimes. If people only had a little respect for others the world would be a much improved place but everyone is always looking to put the screws to someone.

  17. #17
    Member Tearbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    1,986

    Default

    That was pretty unethical to place a snare right on someones dog team trail. I guess if you don't want any trespassing trappers on your property, the owner needs the posted signs in place before trapping season starts, that should eliminate most of the problem right there.
    "Grin and Bear It"

  18. #18
    New member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Eagle River
    Posts
    2,022

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Alaska statute language is such that the burden is on the the landowner to post the entire perimeter of the property. If the point you enter the property is not posted, then legally it's not trespassing until you're caught, told to leave, and either you refuse or return in the future, after having been told you're not welcome.

    These guys knew that full well, and took advantage of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    "Supposedly" as was said, you don't need permission to enter a property IF the property isn't posted properly. And in this case "properly" is the key word so it would seem.....

    Put it this way..... If you have say 5 acres in an area that is legal to hunt moose and a hunter kills a legal bull on your property, then, unless you have signs all around the property saying no trespassing, the hunter is legal to do so....
    I understand that as it applies to hunting, but does that apply to trapping as it is a distinctly different pursuit in that it requires a specific license and regulations independent of hunting?

    I can see it excluded by the possibility, that in a hypothetical scenario, I was a landowner who had a dog that is off leash as we wander the property, the dog outside of my vision encounters and is caught in a connibear rendering it silent, thus, I am not alerted. A few minutes go by and I notice my dog is absent only to find it dead after several minutes of searching.

    Ah well, I answered my own question by revisiting the article and reading the caption under the photo, but thought I would leave my question for thought. However, I do not have anything against trapping.

    It appears ot be a case of poor judgement, regardless of legality. Personaly, I would not set a trapline, large or small near a populated area, traps are too indiscriminate for such proximity.

    I think one has to question the ethics and the ability to make sound decisions of the trooper involved.

  19. #19
    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Mat-Su
    Posts
    2,150

    Default

    I agree tear bear, but personally I kind of hate to clutter up the view with no trespassing signs. One of the best things about Alaska is that its not all fences and signs everywhere you go. All one has to do is drive thru broad pass and the west side of the Denali hwy for an example of what no trespassing signs do to the scenery.

    i would support a change in the trespassing laws in Alaska for both hunting and trapping on private land. But I doubt it will happen.

  20. #20
    Member Tearbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    1,986

    Default

    If posting property as private, is one of the things it takes to legally keep trespassers off my property, then I'll stick to that. If you have your own chunk of land that you paid for with your own sweat & blood (and $$$) you should not have to share it with anyone else unless you want to.
    "Grin and Bear It"

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •