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Thread: A CLASS III firearms QUESTION about select fire trigger

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    Default A CLASS III firearms QUESTION about select fire trigger

    Is it illegal to own/or be in possession of a select fire trigger............ASSUMING you do NOT have a selector.......???

    http://www.elitetacticalcomponents.com/geis-ssf-154

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    From my understanding, yes it is illegal any Class III parts with out having the correct paper work. But I could be wrong, and I would not want to get ATF any reason in 'visit' me

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    It says in the notes to the trigger assembly you linked.

    “All NFA rules apply to the sale of the SSF trigger.”

    And

    “The Super Select-Fire (SSF) Trigger and any technical data related to its design, development, production, manufacture, assembly, operation, repair, testing, maintenance or modification is controlled under the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (“ITAR”), 22 C.F.R. §§ 120-130, and may not be exported to a Foreign Person, either in the U.S. or abroad, without a license or exemption from the U.S. Department of State.”


    It’s the same thing as having a 12” AR pistol barrel without an SBR (short barrel rifle) stamp and only owning rifle lowers (no pistol lower) they can hit you for “intent to manufacture” The trigger is worse, anyone can buy a pistol barrel and have a leagle use for it but there is no none NFA use for the trigger. The seller won’t ship the trigger without NFA paperwork for their files, that is what the “all NFA rules apply” note means.
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    I know that is NOT correct.........because they put AR-15 or AR-16 bolt carriers in AR-15's at the factory. I think you have to have all three to be in violation.

    Quote Originally Posted by AK Bearcat View Post
    From my understanding, yes it is illegal any Class III parts with out having the correct paper work. But I could be wrong, and I would not want to get ATF any reason in 'visit' me

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    ITAR is not applicable to you assuming you are USA citizen residing in the USA. "All NFA rules apply" implies that they will not sell to you without an ATF form 4 (thier perogitive probably lawyer inspired). AR trigger and bolt parts can get convoluted. Read the applicable ATF letters and regs from the web site, or send a letter request for determination. Do NOT waste your time calling for a determination, as you NEED it in wrighting to fully cover your backside in the future should something funky ever happen. that said, the definition of "machine gun" is very clear, and unless said trigger will convert your AR to a "machine gun" per the ATF definition, you are outside the perview of the NFA (my opinion, decide for yourself)
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    There is no issue owning and/or possessing full auto fire control groups, bolt carriers, etc. It is generally the receiver which is considered the machine gun. On an AR15 you need to modify the lower receiver in order to install a full auto fire control group. The sear pin hole needs to be drilled and the 'pocket' to the rear needs to be opened to accommodate the full auto sear.

    Now possession of a device that would allow a semi-auto receiver to be converted to full auto as-is, is a no-no. Devices such as a lightning link, or an auto sear that will work in a semi receiver, and at the same time having a receiver might be construed as constructive intent. But to answer the original question, possessing a full auto fire control group designed for a full-auto lower, is not illegal.

  7. #7

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    Thank YOU..............That was and IS my understanding also.

    Quote Originally Posted by pws_fish_head View Post
    There is no issue owning and/or possessing full auto fire control groups, bolt carriers, etc. It is generally the receiver which is considered the machine gun. On an AR15 you need to modify the lower receiver in order to install a full auto fire control group. The sear pin hole needs to be drilled and the 'pocket' to the rear needs to be opened to accommodate the full auto sear.

    Now possession of a device that would allow a semi-auto receiver to be converted to full auto as-is, is a no-no. Devices such as a lightning link, or an auto sear that will work in a semi receiver, and at the same time having a receiver might be construed as constructive intent. But to answer the original question, possessing a full auto fire control group designed for a full-auto lower, is not illegal.

  8. #8

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    Thank YOU, That is my understanding............I have NO intention of violating any firearms laws.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alangaq View Post
    ITAR is not applicable to you assuming you are USA citizen residing in the USA. "All NFA rules apply" implies that they will not sell to you without an ATF form 4 (thier perogitive probably lawyer inspired). AR trigger and bolt parts can get convoluted. Read the applicable ATF letters and regs from the web site, or send a letter request for determination. Do NOT waste your time calling for a determination, as you NEED it in wrighting to fully cover your backside in the future should something funky ever happen. that said, the definition of "machine gun" is very clear, and unless said trigger will convert your AR to a "machine gun" per the ATF definition, you are outside the perview of the NFA (my opinion, decide for yourself)

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    You have that trigger, a semi-auto lower (or worse yet an 80% lower), a drill and some drill bits without any NFA paperwork and ATF can make you wish you’d took up Barbie dolls as your hobby!! No it’s not illegal in and of itself but in combination with normal stuff you’d most likely have around too they can ruin your life, I’ve seen it happen! You may find an FFL/SOT that would sell you that without NFA paperwork for their file but I sure won’t. Show me your NFA listed AR’s paperwork or your FFL/SOT then we will talk.

     
    I point out the ITAR for the same reason they do, because it’s a restricted device. Sell or give it to the wrong person even in your own house right here in the good ole U.S. and rot in prison for international arms trafficking or even treason.
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    It is best not to have full auto parts laying around unless you have the registered gun for them to fit into. IF, and it can be a BIG if, any semi-intelligent law enforcement type examines your firearm, and finds parts in it that could be construed to make it full auto, you'll wish you had never done that. The cost of a registered full auto will seem insignificant in comparison to paying a lawyer to defend yourself in Federal court against nit picky NFA violations. Best just to steer clear of stuff that is "grey area" and arguable one way or the other. Unless you have VERY deep pockets. I've been served with a Federal search warrant before, and it is no fun. But I'm still here to talk about it. I speak from personal experience. No hypotheticals here.
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    Member GD Yankee's Avatar
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    Buy a Slide-Fire stock.

  12. #12

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    I did NOT buy the trigger, and other than a AR-16 bolt carrier that came from the manufacturer on an AR-15, I have NOTHING that could be NOT legal to be in possession of.

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    The M16 bolt parts don’t matter, it isn’t one of the parts that can make it a “machinegun” so is treated like an M16 barrel made of 4150 to stand full auto . . . It‘s made to stand up to full auto but cant convert the gun to full auto. It’s the trigger parts, the “auto sear” in there that is asking for trouble.
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    The parts that are different between an M-16 and AR-15 are as follows:Trigger, the M-16 trigger is open at the rear for the tail of the disconnector. Disconnector, the disconnector has a tail that protrudes out of the back of the trigger to engage the center lug on the selector. Selector, the selector has a center lug to cam the disconnector down so it no longer engages the hammer. Hammer, the hammer has a lug at the top rear to engage the auto sear, when one is installed in the lower receiver. Auto sear, the auto sear engages the hammer lug and holds the hammer to the rear until the bolt carrier strikes its top edge and forces it out of engagement with the hammer. Bolt carrier, the carrier on an M-16 has a longer surface at the bottom rear to engage the auto sear when one is installed in the lower receiver. It is my understanding that an M-16 bolt carrier is a non-issue by itself in a semi auto gun, but any other M-16 part, by itself, installed in a semi-auto, could be construed as "intent". The disconnector, hammer, and selector can all be altered to be "AR-15" parts by grinding off the protruding M-16 surfaces. The trigger would have to be welded shut at the rear. More trouble than it is worth.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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