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Thread: Not so Fair Chase Hunting

  1. #1
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Default Not so Fair Chase Hunting

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    Member jojomoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    Nice Title......Not So Fair Chase... When will the ****** baggery stop.

  3. #3
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    3 guides in 3 weeks making the paper for unethical practices... Tip of the iceberg IMHO.... Good to see the convictions, that is the only way it will be difference. It will never be stopped, just human nature to expect an animal for the fee paid and the path of least resistance is to make the client happy.

    The thing that pulls my nickers in a bunch about this story is they submitted a poached bear for an ethics award...
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    Makes you wonder how many guides are letting their high dollar clients take game the day before season or other offenses just to keep the cash cow flowing. Unfortunately Alaska is so big you cant catch them all.

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    Not so fair chase indeed...and it took more than four years after the criminal offense for sentencing. Seems like we should be able to do better than that.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Not so fair chase indeed...and it took more than four years after the criminal offense for sentencing. Seems like we should be able to do better than that.
    The information we don't have is when they (law enforcement) found out about the crime. It may have only come out as part of one of the other investigations into the "...more than a dozen employees and clients were already convicted and sentenced for various hunting crimes, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office." I wouldn't be surprised if someone gave up information on this hunt in order to get a lesser sentence in another case

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    Member tlingitwarrior's Avatar
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    Like many things in life, hunting can bring out the best and worst of society.
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  8. #8

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    A criminal investigation is often taken for granted by the general public. Investigations take time, are lengthy and often as it is here in Alaska only one person may be investigating or possibly a small team of 2 or 3 people coordinating with the District Attorney's officer or the U.S. Attorney's Office.

    The few numbers of law enforcement officers compared to the size and range of patrol and response area along with the numbers of calls and cases they deal with is a staggering number compared to other southern states standards. Then even add into that fish and game enforcement is often the least funded and underemployed positions in most any state or agency.

    Most poaching and wildlife offenses simply go unsolved and logged into a report as a carcass found with evidence of poaching or game violations with no other evidence or witnesses except for a shell casing. Just as an example of problems investigations face, that shell casing found near the poached carcass may very well have a usable fingerprint on it but then another problem arises. You have to have something to compare it to in the first place. Thats just one of the more benign problems that may arise.

    Especially with wildlife violation investigations, they seem to take a long time because most of those events occurred in the past with little or no evidence except for witness or informant statements and a dried up carcass of a game animal. Then the steps along the way and all the pieces have to be put into place to raise a case to the level of probable cause to file a criminal charge(s) and make an arrest, issue a warrant or summons.

    As was mentioned prior, an offense committed may come out during an unrelated investigation then follow up has to be done to go down the road of that lead, which may or may not lead to another and another and so on. Criminal cases need to be tied off pretty well in the end or a lot of it just goes away or gets thrown out throughout court preceedings.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    If you can see the comments Larry Kaniut's comment is really interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Ray View Post
    If you can see the comments Larry Kaniut's comment is really interesting.
    I would call it disappointing... Just my personal opinion.
    this wasn't someone who read a calendar wrong. They conspired to commit a crime & then weaved a web of intentional deception around it. The fact that they could accept the SCI award tells me a lot about them & I sure wouldn't want any dealings with them. Nor their miss-named guide service.
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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Ray View Post
    If you can see the comments Larry Kaniut's comment is really interesting.

    Interesting?? Sad if you ask me, the fine is NOT for the animal, it was for the behavior. I don't know what's worst him saying that or 3 people agreeing.

    Sad times we live in, one only has to watch the news to see that.
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    Member Roger's Avatar
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    ADN gave the short version. Here is the other


    http://www.alaskadispatch.com/articl...a-grizzly-hunt
    PEOPLE SAY I HAVE A.D.D I DON'T UNDERSTA.....OH LOOK A MOOSE !!!

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    Interesting?? Sad if you ask me, the fine is NOT for the animal, it was for the behavior. I don't know what's worst him saying that or 3 people agreeing.

    Sad times we live in, one only has to watch the news to see that.
    I agree the only way to make these actions not take place is to fine and punish to a very high degree. Not everything the federal government or a state government agency does is a bad thing.

    I say throw the book at the client and especially the guide for allowing such behavior.

  14. #14
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    After reading the Alaskadispatch, article it is clear that the offenders are glory seeking elitist. They got off cheap IMHO, I wonder how many of their other record book animals were POACHED. At least now they have been exposed for the poachers they are,, I bet writing that letter will be harder for them to stomach than that small fine.. Article says she has taken 17 sheep in 5 years... 50k is pocket change to folks like that.
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  15. #15
    Member L. G.'s Avatar
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    SCI is not about fair chase, that Boone & Crocket.

    SCI allows high fence hunting (canned hunting) It's all about rich white guys getting their names in a book so they can declare themselves a "great white hunter". Of course, that's just my opinion.

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    I deal wit ALOT of high dollar clients through my taxidermy studios, & several of them are so stuck on the size of the trophy being the biggest or the great accomplishments they just did , that they forget to shut up about things.

    It is good to see that they got their comeupins.

    I used to be a President of the Southern Oregon chapter of SCI & Several years in the big board meetings in Reno, we voted to throw out members for unethical hunting practices. Several were guides, but most were over zelous hunters that were bragging about what they had done illegally instead of keeping their mouths shut.

    One guy lost ALL 40 animals in his trophy room & the illegally harvested & imported Leopard he was bragging about.

    & unfortunately EVERY state has these kinds of hunters as we see in the news releases all the time.

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    The need and pressure to get an SC record or B & C is what pushes this in my opinion. I have potential clients contact me every year to ask what were my clients scores from last year and they are taken back a bit when I tell them " I don't know and don't care." I keep track of the percentage of my clients who bag legal moose and percentage who fill tags for bou but never size.

    It should not be about the kill but be about the hunt. I am no different from any other guy who hunts. Love to see the photos from everyones hunts. A nice rack is a nice rack but I really enjoy hearing about how much fun or hard the hunt was. The story is the real trophy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by L. G. View Post
    It's all about rich white guys getting their names in a book so they can declare themselves a "great white hunter".
    How in the world did this become a "race" thing?
    Vance in AK.

    Matthew 6:33
    "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."

  19. #19
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    What gets me is they harvested this Animal before the season. I mean they couldn't wait 24 hours to start hunting?
    They had the whole season ahead of them and just HAD to start early!
    Poaching is wrong no matter the reason but This was pretty blatant violation and like I said they had the whole season ahead of them.
    I also wonder who the other people in camp were who agreed to let this happen was it just people from the guide service or other hunters? If they were other hunters I think they should also get in some trouble (maybe a warning anyway) for condoning this.
    Besides the guides getting their licenses revoked,fines etcetra.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

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  20. #20
    Member AK Troutbum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if someone gave up information on this hunt in order to get a lesser sentence in another case
    I think you can bet on that.

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