Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: 45 Colt Blackpowder Loads

  1. #1
    Member winibezold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    anchorage
    Posts
    285

    Default 45 Colt Blackpowder Loads

    ok, so due to the recent unavailability of most any smokeless handgun powder, I've come to the conclusion that I need to branch out. I ordered some black dawg prelubed cast bullets to load, but in the mean time I have some questions. can I load my standard copper jacketed bullets over the top of black powder? I'm loading with Hodgdon Pyrodex P powder. I know the copper jacket is harder than a soft lead normally used with black powder loads, but does that make it a no go?

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by winibezold View Post
    ok, so due to the recent unavailability of most any smokeless handgun powder, I've come to the conclusion that I need to branch out. I ordered some black dawg prelubed cast bullets to load, but in the mean time I have some questions. can I load my standard copper jacketed bullets over the top of black powder? I'm loading with Hodgdon Pyrodex P powder. I know the copper jacket is harder than a soft lead normally used with black powder loads, but does that make it a no go?
    I'm sure it's not a no-go, even though jacketed bullets produce a bit more pressure due to greater friction in the barrel.

    You would want a load that is safe in your particular gun, and, of course, the bullet needs to be against the powder, like all BP loadings.

    44 cal. Cap n' Ball revolvers which are really 45 cal. use about 30 grains.

    One time ago, I loaded some 357s with Tripple Seven BP substitute. I just filled them up to where the base of the bullet was.

    You might wanna clean your gun often, and thorughly. I use Real BP, and I tried the 777 only a time or two before giving it away. I have heard that Pyrodex collects moisture more than Real Black Powder does.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  3. #3
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Missing Palmer AK in Phonix AZ.
    Posts
    6,416

    Default

    It will work, you wonít harm a modern gun with black powder in a case that was designed for black powder. Where things get dicey is under loading as Smitty pointed out and bottleneck cases never meant for black powder. You can just do a lightly compressed load and it will be fine, it will be rather anemic when your used to smokeless.
     
    Will work fine even with copper but why not just go with lead, your going to be bottom if not below intended velocity for copper jackets. And your going to be cleaning all the time anyway so why not cheaper lead bullets. Cleaning will be needed a lot even with Pyrodex, maybe especially with Pyrodex never leave it dirty as the stuff rots a bore like Coca-Cola rots teeth! Definitely clean well every time before you switch back to smokeless rounds, a soot fowled bore and a higher pressure smokeless round seems a bad idea!!
     
     
    The reason it needs to be in contact with the bullet is that air gaps in black powder charges can cause detonation. Detonation means the powder didnít burn incumbently over time but explodes or detonates all at the same time like a bomb, itís by no means a common thing but a very VERY bad thing.
     
    Also watch out for squibs, especially with copper. Sending a good one down the pipe after a weak squib stuck in there will make a real mess of your gun. Squibs were more common with black powder because it is more prone to degrade over time and doesnít like moisture at all. I donít know the shelf life of Pyrodex in a copper case but Iíd be very reluctant to leave them sit around very long.
     
    So yea it will work but your looking at quite a bit more work to do it.
    Andy
    On the web= C-lazy-F.co
    Email= Andy@C-lazy-F.co
    Call/Text 602-315-2406
    Phoenix Arizona

  4. #4

    Default

    Be sure to wash out your cases after firing, sizing and decapping. Plain water works fine, but adding a little dish soap to the water is fine too. A bud just loads all his cases in mesh bags and runs them through the dishwasher. Long and short of it, residue from BP and subs corrode cases just as well as guns.

  5. #5
    Member winibezold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    anchorage
    Posts
    285

    Default

    nice, thanks for the tips. I agree with you ADfields, just right now midway is shipping my bp leads, and all I've got are copper jacketed 45's or smokeless lubed lead 45's. just trying to see if the copper bullets would be suitable for trying some things out. I'm not too worried about the power of the rounds, as I've yet to pick up a nice old Blackhawk, these will be coming out of my super redhawk 454. how does the bp residue effect stainless? does that buy me any time on cleaning or is that something I need to be diligent about either way? i'm just excited to throw some smoke at the range!

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,805

    Default

    Good Point AD:

    I hadn't thought about leaving a jacket in the barrel.

    Something I was warned about when reading the Speer loading manual. They say don't go less than the lowest data load for that reason.

    Thanks
    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  7. #7
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Missing Palmer AK in Phonix AZ.
    Posts
    6,416

    Default

    You still need to clean, stainless isnít rust proof but it will make it a bit less critical.
    Andy
    On the web= C-lazy-F.co
    Email= Andy@C-lazy-F.co
    Call/Text 602-315-2406
    Phoenix Arizona

  8. #8
    Member winibezold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    anchorage
    Posts
    285

    Default

    right on that's what I figured. I loaded some up with 185gr SWC FMJ, made sure to basically fill the case with powder so that when seating it would compress slightly. I also gave each case a good rattle tap to settle the powder prior to final fill and seat. i'll see tomorrow how well they work, hopefully the 454 frame and cylinder strength give me some leeway in case something isn't right.

  9. #9
    Member fishnngrinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    296

    Default

    Hodgdon gives a great pdf reloading manual. It has lots of good info on black powder loads as well.
    http://www.hodgdon.com/mwg-internal/...?id=rt3ExDcaZW
    NRA Lifetime Member

  10. #10
    Member Alangaq's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Hey! If I look thru this empty beer bottle, I think I can see Russia from here!!!
    Posts
    1,232

    Default

    Some years back I loaded up a bunch of 45 colt BP loads. I used lightly compressed load of FFF Goex (what I had on hand) under 250 gn lead bullet lubed with 50/50% Alox and added a 1/8" grease cookie of the same lube between the base of the bullet and a cardboard over powder wad made from 12 pack beer box material. They shot fine and chronographed around 800 fps if I remember correctly. The additional lube made for once big sticky mess.. not sure I would do that again as it pretty much turned my vaquero into a sticky soot covered tar baby after a couple hundred rounds. Then again, the fouling remained "soft" and there was no issue with leading...
    ďYouíve gotten soft. Youíre like one of those police dogs whoís released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.Ē Bill McNeal of News Radio

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    466

    Default

    I have been dabbling with BP in .45 Colt for most of 2013.

    #1, pyrodex is my last choice. if you are accustomed to cleaning up after pyrodex you are really going to like cleaning up after any other BP or sub that you sample.

    #2, I find it easier to keep my barrels prepped for either BP or smokeless. Switching between preps is kinda a PITA, shooting both in the same barrel and then cleaning up the combined mess is a huge PITA.

    To go from smokeless to BP, scrub the barrel to squeaky clean with the solvent of your choice. Then dry patches. Then isopropyl alcohol soaked patches (70% is fine, no need to spring for the 90% stuff), then air dry a few minutes. dry patch, one pass is fine. Then a BP lube in the barrel - not petroleum based. I use a mix of 45-45-10 crisco-bees wax and olive oil, have no need to try anything new.

    Now go shoot some BP, and then clean up with patches soaked in hot soapy water. really clean, really fast, its pretty cool after years of #9. Once the bore is clean, some dry patches and then a fresh coat of 45-45-10 lube on a patch.

    To go from BP back to smokeless, scrub the bore squeaky clean with hot soapy patches, then dry patches, then isoprpyl, let air dry a bit, one more dry patch, and then Rem-Oil or similar.

    Compared to shooting both in the same barrel, I find all these steps really are worth the trouble.

    No need for magnum primers, I was getting good ignition with regular primers and BP subs last winter down to -30dF.

    Generally when loading BP into brass you want somewhere between zero and 10% compression. That's the fiddle zone. If your load density is under 100% you got to worry about detonation instead of ignition - bad for you and the gun.

    You want enough soft enough (hard enough in the hot weather) lube that a wee star shaped deposit of melted lube forms on the crown of your barrel with the first shot. It's proof the cast bullet was still shedding lube when it exited the barrel preserving your rifling, and lube is cheap.

    FFg is generally a better choice for .45Colt than FFFg. I haven't tried every possibility, but back to back chrono runs with 777 in both sizes with 270gr RCBS-SAA bullets I was seeing 800fps with FFg 777 and 810fps with FFFg 777. The difference was the gun got really really hot while burning the FFFg. These were full powder loads. The folks running gallery loads, filling the case with cornmeal above a light charge and so on tend to get away with whatever powder; for full power 45 Colt FFg seems to be the consensus go to size on the internet, my limited data agrees.

    Jacketed bullets with BP should be OK, you will give away a little bit of velocity, shouldn't hurt yourself with a gun made after WWII, no idea how bad that will be to clean up, never tried it.

    If I was going to try it (jacketed bullet with BP) I would mash a ball or disc BP lube onto the top of the powder charge under the bullet. What you don't want is to mix burning BP with petroleum, cleaning that stuff up once will put you back off it lifetime.

    More info about homemade lubes for cast bullets in a thread started by me about cold weather gunpowder testing, I think I last posted in it about march of 2013 or so...

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...g-tips-invited

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...n-for-a-powder

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swmn View Post
    What you don't want is to mix burning BP with petroleum, cleaning that stuff up once will put you back off it lifetime.
    [/URL]
    Thanks swmn:

    Lots of usable info in your post.

    Looking at the sentence above, is that why many BP/ML shooters say to Use ONLY natural, or non-petroleum products? It makes a hard to clean mess?

    Thanks Smitty of the North

    I'm agin violence, NOW, DRAW.
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post

    Looking at the sentence above, is that why many BP/ML shooters say to Use ONLY natural, or non-petroleum products? It makes a hard to clean mess?
    I don't know, but I reckon so.

    Lemme put it this way. The worst mess I ever cleaned up in my life was a barrel with a protective coating of petroleum in it that fired BP and smokeless both. The second worse mess I ever cleaned up in my life was a barrel with a thin coat of petroleum protectant that fired black powder only. I have been a registered nurse for 18 years, and I bet $20 I can make you throw up telling you about the third worst mess I ever cleaned up in my life ;-)

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    466

    Default

    But there is a fly in the ointment. If you put something like "cast bullet lube recipe" in google you'll get about a bajillion recipes. A fair chunk of them use ATF (as in Automatic Transmission Fluid) as an ingredient.

    I hear tell they put a whole bunch of conditioners and modifiers in that stuff, but I believe they start with some fractional distillate of crude oil to make it. Never fooled with ATF in my bullet lube, it might be OK.

    Like I said above, dabbling. I make no claim to be an expert, but I found stuff that works at -30dF and I plan to stick with it.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,805

    Default

    I'm not into throwing up, on purpose, unless I done et some pizzen.

    I tried some Hoppes #9 Black Powder Solvent and Patch Lube. After seeing someone else using it, then seeing it in a store.

    When I coated the barrel with it after cleaning, it left a colored coating in the barrel, kinda orange IIRC. I didn't like it, because it seemed to make my gun harder to load. I stopped using it.

    I've read elsewhere that petroleum products shouldn't be used to clean a ML barrel. I never knew why I THINK I know now.

    In my case, it was probably the kerosene mixing with the BP residue. ????????

    Thanks
    SOTN
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  16. #16
    Member winibezold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    anchorage
    Posts
    285

    Default

    well, i loaded some light 185gr jacketed bullets over a full case of pyrodex fffg, and lightly compressed. they shot ok at 10yds, nothing to write home about but ok. lots of smoke, lots cooler than just shooting regular loads all day. i went from reg loads to bp for 10, then back again with no noticeable loss in accuracy. the gun cleaned up pretty easy with dish soap and water. as to the reports on petro products and bp, i've read alot about the fact that it will for a sort of heavy tar in your action and barrel, and if shot enough will lead to the gun locking up due to build up. can't say for sure, but it sounds reasonable

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by winibezold View Post
    as to the reports on petro products and bp, i've read alot about the fact that it will for a sort of heavy tar in your action and barrel, and if shot enough will lead to the gun locking up due to build up. can't say for sure, but it sounds reasonable
    I have never tried it with jacketed. I wonder if using cast bullets is part of the mess.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Portage Valley, AK
    Posts
    313

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by winibezold View Post
    right on that's what I figured. I loaded some up with 185gr SWC FMJ, made sure to basically fill the case with powder so that when seating it would compress slightly. I also gave each case a good rattle tap to settle the powder prior to final fill and seat. i'll see tomorrow how well they work, hopefully the 454 frame and cylinder strength give me some leeway in case something isn't right.
    How did it work out with the Super Redhawk and BP? I have the same gun and about to start using BP with lead cast bullets. Did you us 45 Colt brass or the 454? I have concerns about the powder ring that happens were the 45 Colt brass ends and 454 begins. Will it be in issue or just us the Colt?

  19. #19
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    4,834

    Default

    If you are in anchorage and are interested I Have some .45 bullets I casted. I'd give you a few to try if you want. Shoot me a PM. I'll be back in town for two weeks starting tomorrow afternoon.


    Quote Originally Posted by winibezold View Post
    nice, thanks for the tips. I agree with you ADfields, just right now midway is shipping my bp leads, and all I've got are copper jacketed 45's or smokeless lubed lead 45's. just trying to see if the copper bullets would be suitable for trying some things out. I'm not too worried about the power of the rounds, as I've yet to pick up a nice old Blackhawk, these will be coming out of my super redhawk 454. how does the bp residue effect stainless? does that buy me any time on cleaning or is that something I need to be diligent about either way? i'm just excited to throw some smoke at the range!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •