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Thread: rifle delima 30-06 vs 280

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    Default rifle delima 30-06 vs 280

    So I have been looking at a forbes 30-06. I have also been looking at a forbes 280. Normally I would just get the 280 and call it good. Mt only problem is that after calling forbes the 280 has a 1 in 10 twist and I really wanted a 1 in 9. I had my heart set on shooting 160gr accubond or the new 150 accubond LR. I have been just thinking of getting the 30-06 ans passing on the 280, but I really had my heart set on the 280. What do you guys think?

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swapdonkey View Post
    So I have been looking at a forbes 30-06. I have also been looking at a forbes 280. . What do you guys think?
    I think there is no discernible difference in the field with either of these rounds… both are killers.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swapdonkey View Post
    So I have been looking at a forbes 30-06. I have also been looking at a forbes 280. Normally I would just get the 280 and call it good. Mt only problem is that after calling forbes the 280 has a 1 in 10 twist and I really wanted a 1 in 9. I had my heart set on shooting 160gr accubond or the new 150 accubond LR. I have been just thinking of getting the 30-06 ans passing on the 280, but I really had my heart set on the 280. What do you guys think?

    I have both of those and can probably help you out. I can tell you for sure that my 280AI would not stabilize 168grain Barnes LRXs, they would keyhole, Barnes recommends a 1 in 9.5 minimum twist rate. So a 1 in 10 might not be a bad thing. I'm waiting to get some 150 grain LR Accubonds, but they are still not in stock, will work up some next year.

    Now my 30-06 is awesome, between the 2, 30-06 wins hands down. Many more options for loads, brass and bullets. My R-17 load is clocking in at 2917 and I made kills over 500 yards with it this fall. The 30-06 has been around forever for a reason, 4 down in the mag, they feed well because of the low shoulder angle and with modern powders they shot about as fast as a 300 WM. I was going to sell the 280AI, but the wife killed a Ram with it this year at over 400 yards, so now it is HER rifle.

    Have some load data for which ever you decide.



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    Wow! I'm a 7mm fan and my heart is with the 280. But with a report like that, I'd have to go with the 06 as well. Timely, firsthand experience. How can you beat it!!!

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    I'm looking at my drop charts and here is some data for ya.

    One thing is for sure, they both KILL.

    280AI 160 grain AB velocity at 400 yards 2317 with 18.42 inches of drop, velocity at 500 yards 2161 with 36.96 inches of drop

    30-06 180 grain AB velocity at 400 yards 2212 with 20.00 inches of drop, velocity at 500 yards 2052 with 40.21 inches of drop

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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    I'm looking at my drop charts and here is some data for ya.

    One thing is for sure, they both KILL.

    280AI 160 grain AB velocity at 400 yards 2317 with 18.42 inches of drop, velocity at 500 yards 2161 with 36.96 inches of drop

    30-06 180 grain AB velocity at 400 yards 2212 with 20.00 inches of drop, velocity at 500 yards 2052 with 40.21 inches of drop

    Steve
    What kind of speed are you getting with the 180 accubond of the 06?

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    I have too many of both and I seem to pick up the 700 Mtn. rifle in .280 most often. Longest shot with it was ~475 yds one shot kill on a big bull caribou but the '06 wildo the same given the chance. In the last few years I find myself hunting with a .260 more than either. The .260 kills just as dead and doesn't kick near a bad...but that's just me. My Dad always said you can't beat an '06 and I think he was right.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swapdonkey View Post
    What kind of speed are you getting with the 180 accubond of the 06?
    2917 at the muzzle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    2917 at the muzzle.

    Thats smoking fast. Did you start 10 percent below that? I have read your hand loading threads here in the forum and you are one of the the pickiest handloader I have seen. I just wonder how you went about starting that load. I have read that you use can use IMR 4350 load data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swapdonkey View Post
    Thats smoking fast. Did you start 10 percent below that? I have read your hand loading threads here in the forum and you are one of the the pickiest handloader I have seen. I just wonder how you went about starting that load. I have read that you use can use IMR 4350 load data.
    4350 is a good reference, I have been developing loads for Reloader 17 since it hit the market. I have found very little data on it, starting to show up now. R17 has replaced 4350 as my go to powder. Have been able to get it to shoot with about any caliber I have tried it with.

    I used the ladder method and worked up. Started too low the first time and had to bump up.

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  11. #11

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    A 1-10 280 is a bummer. Wonder why Melvin did such a thing? I guess they figure that guys would be shooting 140's.

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    I have to chuckle occasionally when I see "true believers" of computer generated drop tables cite "advantages" of one cartridge over another.

    It brings to mind a conversation I had awhile back with Randy Brooks...CEO of Barnes ...at the SCI Convention.

    I asked Randy "Why are the ballistic coefficients of Barnes bullets exaggerated by 30% to 50%?". He looked at me and smiled "Well, Fred, we have to stay competitive".Randy is a very nice guy and a solid citizen...but even he knew (then and probably now) that bending the bow was a cost of doing business...and was honest enough to admit it.

    There are only TWO ways to know what bullet performance is actually doing downrange... in determining the REAL BC of a particular bullet and, by extension, it's gain or loss in the field:

    1.Fire it over a 2 chronograph set up and calculate what the actual BC computes at

    OR

    2.Fire it in the field under ideal conditions at carefully measured distances and and see where the actual POI is

    Both are difficult and expensive to do.Anyone who has not read Sierra's explanation of the rolling and changing BCs of bullets under different atmospheric conditions...elevation of the actual firing (can fluctuate up to .100 depending on elevation)...and actual muzzle velocity hasn't advanced past kindergarden on "real" differences of bullet BCs.I know: we all want quick and easy answers from load books and our computers.

    Point being:internet ballistic programs are a dime a dozen.As are internet ballisticians.

    Believing the BCs as published is equivalent to asking" why ain't my new F250 gittin that mileage that the sticker toll me I was gonna"??

    At the end of the day, it all needs to be checked out under conditions that not one in one hundred of our members (including me) can (or wants) to go through.All bullet manufacturers use best case/idealized scenarios...the KISS or "good enough for government work" approach.

    Those that drink the Kool Aid from computer simulations make their arguments...and submit their proof accordingly.Of course, if the ORIGINAL BC estimate is wildly off, then they generate GIGO.

  13. #13

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    Believing the BCs as published is equivalent to asking" why ain't my new F250 gittin that mileage that the sticker toll me I was gonna"??
    Great post! Chronograph and shooting trump keyboard ballistics every time. But just ask Santa- Caribou really do fly.

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    All I have to say about the above remarks is that I PROOF my loads and drops. I put over 300 rounds through those 2 Kimbers this last season. My 30-06 has a CDS scope on it with a Kenton dial.

    Chrono set up




    422 Yards, hit with both the 280AI and my 06



    Started shooting at 300, last shot over 400



    Over 500 yards



    First shot 350, last shot 455



    Back up shot from 528 yards, shot on video with 3 witnesses.



    The shooting started at just under 300 and the anchor shot was fired from over 400




    YMMV, but one thing is sure. These critters did not die from shots fired from my KEYBOARD.

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    OK this is what I decided over a night of sleeping on it. I'm going with the 30-06. I have a Leupold vx3 2.5x8x32 that once I get load worked up I will send into Leupold and get the CDS dial installed on it, and maybe a thinner cross hairs. The rifle should be 6.5 lbs loaded without a sling. I have wanted a forbes since they said they going to produce them. I figure I will either shoot 165 TTSX, 165 Accubond, or the 180 accubond. It will depend on what the rifle likes. I also Think I need to try some 220 gr round nose, just for the heck of it. I should have it by the end of the week I hope.

    But keep it coming there is always some good reading on threads like this.

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    Since you are going with the 06 (good choice), here are a couple more loads.

    Always work up, I DO!!!!!



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    How do you like that Chrono? I bought one but I haven't had time to use it yet since im in Afghanistan.


    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    All I have to say about the above remarks is that I PROOF my loads and drops. I put over 300 rounds through those 2 Kimbers this last season. My 30-06 has a CDS scope on it with a Kenton dial.

    Chrono set up






    Steve
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    Back in Afghanistan, I hope for the last time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akula682 View Post
    How do you like that Chrono? I bought one but I haven't had time to use it yet since im in Afghanistan.
    I'm totally happy with it. So much easier to use than the traditional type, I have the 2nd generation version and even with it you have to make sure the the sensor stays tight. I have to say that it is only a issue on the pencil thin barrels. I shot 100s of rounds over it and it read them all.



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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    I'm totally happy with it. So much easier to use than the traditional type, I have the 2nd generation version and even with it you have to make sure the the sensor stays tight. I have to say that it is only a issue on the pencil thin barrels. I shot 100s of rounds over it and it read them all.



    http://www.magnetospeed.com/
    Have you noticed a different POI when using it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by swapdonkey View Post
    Have you noticed a different POI when using it?
    Yes and no, it does effect POI with some rifles and loads and not others. POI shift is not much, but once I get my numbers I verify and adjust if needed.
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