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Thread: Non Resident Moose & Must Use Reg./Lic. Guide

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    Default Non Resident Moose & Must Use Reg./Lic. Guide

    I see that in some sub units, for draw area tags, Alaska G&F is making non residents use a guide now. This is new information to me - has anyone else noticed this?

    How long has it been going on?

    I can't say how displeased I am to find this out. As an avid, DIY hunter this limits the areas I can try and put together a hunt and experience. In my mind this makes it harder to put those kind of hunters together and ultimately discourages hunting unless you're looking to spend the money on a guide.

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    I noticed that too. I wonder if it is due to the amount of out of state hunters that get in trouble with the regulations portion of the hunting up here. I read the Trooper reports frequently and see that this group has issues every year. Not saying that residents don't have issues too. It would be interesting if F&G had a spread sheet on type of violation verses non=resident/resident.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    At first glance, it looks like every area that has must-be-guided tags also has an allocation of can't-use-guide tags as well. For example, DM875 and DM885 are for the same area and are both non-resident only permits. The difference is that winners of 875 can't use a guide, while those winning 885 must use a guide.

    I'm not seeing any exceptions to the above, but I may be missing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wkevin98 View Post
    As an avid, DIY hunter this limits the areas I can try and put together a hunt and experience. In my mind this makes it harder to put those kind of hunters together and ultimately discourages hunting unless you're looking to spend the money on a guide.
    As a past resident of Alaska who can no longer hunt many species up there, I also disagree with the non-res stuff. But since I am a non-resident of Wyoming also, it sure would be nice to be able to hunt "Wilderness" in your home state without the requirement of a guide or outfitter to hold my hand while doing so. I am not anti-guide as a whole, but it is a real shame the power the guide lobby possesses and how they choose to wield that power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    At first glance, it looks like every area that has must-be-guided tags also has an allocation of can't-use-guide tags as well. For example, DM875 and DM885 are for the same area and are both non-resident only permits. The difference is that winners of 875 can't use a guide, while those winning 885 must use a guide.

    I'm not seeing any exceptions to the above, but I may be missing it.
    That is correct - 885 you must hire a guide.

    875 drawing odds - 12.5% and 95 applicants
    885 drawing odds - 71% and 17 applicants

    24 total tags for that area. 12 / 12 split though between 875 and 885. It just feels to me the state is trying to make an extra buck on the non-resident hunters by making them hire the guide and push the cost of the hunt up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wykee5 View Post
    As a past resident of Alaska who can no longer hunt many species up there, I also disagree with the non-res stuff. But since I am a non-resident of Wyoming also, it sure would be nice to be able to hunt "Wilderness" in your home state without the requirement of a guide or outfitter to hold my hand while doing so. I am not anti-guide as a whole, but it is a real shame the power the guide lobby possesses and how they choose to wield that power.
    I personally don't like the guide in the wilderness or agree with it either. If you are going to come to WY to hunt, I expect you have some experience and have planned a little - which is more then I can say for knucklehead resident hunters.

    Bottom line for me is that it feels like an inside/lobbying job by someone who had something to gain out of it.

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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    I guess I'll be the first to say I support such regualtions.
    Nothing against non residents but anything that increases my odds as a resident is a good thing IMHO.
    Any nonresidents who dislike this regulation can always do what I did and become and remain an Alaskan resident.
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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wykee5 View Post
    As a past resident of Alaska who can no longer hunt many species up there, I also disagree with the non-res stuff. But since I am a non-resident of Wyoming also, it sure would be nice to be able to hunt "Wilderness" in your home state without the requirement of a guide or outfitter to hold my hand while doing so. I am not anti-guide as a whole, but it is a real shame the power the guide lobby possesses and how they choose to wield that power.
    Any resident in Wyoming can register and take you hunting on "designated wilderness" land. Or, that is what the Game Warden said when I was there in September.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkevin98 View Post
    That is correct - 885 you must hire a guide.

    875 drawing odds - 12.5% and 95 applicants
    885 drawing odds - 71% and 17 applicants

    24 total tags for that area. 12 / 12 split though between 875 and 885. It just feels to me the state is trying to make an extra buck on the non-resident hunters by making them hire the guide and push the cost of the hunt up.
    Welcome to my world. Take a look at the numbers for resident vs. non-resident draw odds for Kodiak bear. Some parts of Kodiak are darn near a guaranteed tag for non-res, while a resident could go a lifetime and not draw a tag. The same is true of 14C sheep. I get why you're bothered, but in some of the most sought after areas, non-res hunters actually have the better end of the deal - though they have to hire a guide.

    Of course, there is a solution for you. See our "relocating to Alaska" forum for details.

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    Brian, we have the same issues for draw areas as well in WY and the percentage of tags that go to non-residents. Drawing odds are better for the non-resident on all species when you get into the preference point system.

    My point is this change that has been made and where its going. Is draw area moose coming to an end for non residents to DIY hunt?

    Why the change? Where is it going..?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    I guess I'll be the first to say I support such regualtions.
    Nothing against non residents but anything that increases my odds as a resident is a good thing IMHO.
    Any nonresidents who dislike this regulation can always do what I did and become and remain an Alaskan resident.
    This reg. change didn't change your odds as a resident. All it did is change the price to hunt for the non-resident. Same # of tags are being given out in the area.

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    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Looks to me like its basically "buy a tag." Pay 15k or so to a guide and you will draw a highly desired moose tag. If you don't like this route, don't choose it; you still have the rest of the state in which to do a DIY hunt.

  13. #13

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    just wondering. do monriesients take biger bears or sheep? and what percentage of non-res take illegal rams?
    if so the reg requiring guides might be good for the resource.
    wes

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    Quote Originally Posted by wesleyM1990 View Post
    just wondering. do monriesients take biger bears or sheep? and what percentage of non-res take illegal rams?
    if so the reg requiring guides might be good for the resource.
    wes
    Hahaha as a matter of fact, Wes, nonresidents are completely incompetent when it comes to field judging any trophy, especially sheep. Please don't let anyone tell you that the goal is to prop up an industry for monetary gain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    I guess I'll be the first to say I support such regualtions.
    Nothing against non residents but anything that increases my odds as a resident is a good thing IMHO.
    Any nonresidents who dislike this regulation can always do what I did and become and remain an Alaskan resident.
    Explain how this will increase your odds? Both of these draws are for non residents. So 24 tags are going to non residents whether they are guided or not guided. You still can't get one. This is akin to Kodiak bear guides getting the lion share of the bear draws down there. The guide system doesn't help Residents hunt bears on Kodiak, unless you want to pay a guide to take you.

    The only thing this "new" moose hunt does is guarantee guides in the area that they will have at least 12 hunts to book for the year. Without the requirement, the guides in that area would have to hope for the luck of the draw that people who would hire them are drawn and not DIY hunters. And if the local guide is a non res, this hunt doesn't benefit any resident at all. I smell foul play under the table.
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    If there going down this road then all guides need to be residents and there employee`s need to be allso .On land and on the water ,but noone on the board`s got the nerve to put this up to a vote that would only show where the $$$$$$$ are !

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    Quote Originally Posted by brokeeye View Post
    If there going down this road then all guides need to be residents and there employee`s need to be allso .On land and on the water ,but noone on the board`s got the nerve to put this up to a vote that would only show where the $$$$$$$ are !
    110% agreed.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brokeeye View Post
    If there going down this road then all guides need to be residents and there employee`s need to be allso .On land and on the water ,but noone on the board`s got the nerve to put this up to a vote that would only show where the $$$$$$$ are !
    Then they would have to do the same thing for doctors and nurses.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Welcome to my world. Take a look at the numbers for resident vs. non-resident draw odds for Kodiak bear. Some parts of Kodiak are darn near a guaranteed tag for non-res, while a resident could go a lifetime and not draw a tag. The same is true of 14C sheep. I get why you're bothered, but in some of the most sought after areas, non-res hunters actually have the better end of the deal - though they have to hire a guide.

    Of course, there is a solution for you. See our "relocating to Alaska" forum for details.
    What's going on here is these areas have exclusive guide rights. So only a certain number of guides can guide in that area. Also, the regs require you to have a guide agreement before applying for the tag. So you get the guide agreement, you get the tag.

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