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Thread: Alternatives to Scott Albany/Hudson Bay

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    Default Alternatives to Scott Albany/Hudson Bay

    I hope they do not go out of business or someone picks it up, but what are some alternatives if they are gone? My main goal is to pass through Class I-III rapids up and back, under small outboard power, for about 100 - 200', to some smoother water and prime trophy salmonid water. The Grumman 19 looks a little shallow at 14" center depth. I should add this would be in the winter with mid 30's water temp, and minimal margin for error. Possibly the Old Town Discovery Sport 15 but I would prefer a longer craft. I am inexperienced on this and want to do it right. I have a Grumman 17 double end with bow mounted 24 volt Minn Kota, 12 volt MK for my homemade side mount, an Evinrude 4.5 HP for the other side, and side floats. I can easily get to the bottom of the rapids but when flows are higher don't want to take chances.
    I have learned a lot from this forum.

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    As much as I like Old Town Canoe (reference my screen name), if you're thinking about a Disco Sport, you should look at the Wenonah Backwater 15 in Royalex, if you can still find one in Royalex. If not, then the Kevlar. The Royalex backwater is a lot lighter than a disco, 70ish lbs compared to 120ish. A disco weights the same as my aluminum Grumman. The disco is poly link, like my Guide and they're heavy to portage. Both boats are rated for 5 hp, so the lighter boat means more useful load or faster under the same load. Call up Wilderness Way, down in Soldotna, and get a quote on a Backwater. They should be getting ready to put in their summer order; if you get it in beforehand, you may not have to pay a lot of shipping. Nice, knowledgeable folks, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by billfish1984 View Post
    I hope they do not go out of business or someone picks it up, but what are some alternatives if they are gone? My main goal is to pass through Class I-III rapids up and back, under small outboard power, for about 100 - 200', to some smoother water and prime trophy salmonid water. The Grumman 19 looks a little shallow at 14" center depth. I should add this would be in the winter with mid 30's water temp, and minimal margin for error. Possibly the Old Town Discovery Sport 15 but I would prefer a longer craft. I am inexperienced on this and want to do it right. I have a Grumman 17 double end with bow mounted 24 volt Minn Kota, 12 volt MK for my homemade side mount, an Evinrude 4.5 HP for the other side, and side floats. I can easily get to the bottom of the rapids but when flows are higher don't want to take chances.
    I have learned a lot from this forum.
    Unfortunately I don't know anything that matches up that well but the Clipper Mackenzie Sport (18 foot) in Kevlar is car top-able and very capable. 5HP tops though and not a good match with a surface drive. I have been in one and liked it a lot. Very stiff and capable of hauling a moose. Not in the same size class as the Scott's though but very good hauling capacity. The same canoe without the Y stern and side mounted motor would also be good. You can lean a side mounted air cooled motor to go up very shallow water. That's a trick printed on this forum somewhere.

    http://www.clippercanoes.com/boat_specs.php?model_id=120

    http://www.clippercanoes.com/boat_sp...p?model_id=119

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    Quote Originally Posted by North61 View Post
    Unfortunately I don't know anything that matches up that well but the Clipper Mackenzie Sport (18 foot) in Kevlar is car top-able and very capable. 5HP tops though and not a good match with a surface drive. I have been in one and liked it a lot. Very stiff and capable of hauling a moose. Not in the same size class as the Scott's though but very good hauling capacity. The same canoe without the Y stern and side mounted motor would also be good. You can lean a side mounted air cooled motor to go up very shallow water. That's a trick printed on this forum somewhere.

    http://www.clippercanoes.com/boat_specs.php?model_id=120

    http://www.clippercanoes.com/boat_sp...p?model_id=119
    Thanks, I love those Clippers!

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    I run a 9.8 on my Mac 18 with zero problems. I wouldn't run a surface drive with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boud'arc View Post
    I run a 9.8 on my Mac 18 with zero problems. I wouldn't run a surface drive with it.
    That's a lot of HP! How do you like the Mac?

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    It's a great canoe. Easy to load and unload at 79#. It's stiff with zero oil can. I ran it full throttle about 30 miles across 3 lakes and back in August with the 9.8 lifted 6". Had about 450 pounds in the boat counting me and the motor. No spray in the boat. I was thinking to myself that if I had a moose in the boat and was traveling up the Yukon I wouldn't hesitate to put my 86# Nissan 18 two stoke on it. The gel coat gets a few scratches but according to Clipper it's just cosmetic. They sell the same boat without the gel coat applied. The canoe is epoxy but the gel coat is polyester so it's easy to recoat if you want. Clipper told me to use polyester resin if I ever want to apply a skid plate. Paddles easy and is as stable as any canoe of its size.

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    The one I was in had an electric motor, I was super impressed how stiff it was while being so light weight. A 10HP must move it right along!

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    the old GRUMMAN is still a good canoe 19 FT. sq. will do the job when called upon, there are A lots of them in Alaska still being used some with lifts an some with out put still in use , comes in at about 110 LBS hull .o50 [ now] will take a 15HP 2 cycle [about 75 lbs] or a light 10 HP . 4 cycle
    [ about 85 LBS ] on a lift , better mileage on trips not as fast but can't have everything, my 2 cts SID

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid View Post
    the old GRUMMAN is still a good canoe 19 FT. sq. will do the job when called upon, there are A lots of them in Alaska still being used some with lifts an some with out put still in use , comes in at about 110 LBS hull .o50 [ now] will take a 15HP 2 cycle [about 75 lbs] or a light 10 HP . 4 cycle
    [ about 85 LBS ] on a lift , better mileage on trips not as fast but can't have everything, my 2 cts SID
    Thanks Sid, I love Grummans but wonder if the higher center depth on the Mac 18 will give more freeboard that could be important. I need to pass through waves about 12" and sometimes maybe close to 18", though this for just a few yards. I live a short distance from Grumman in NY and it is easy to pick up a 19. Not sure how I would get a Clipper. Would you be comfortable taking a Grumman 19 through that water in the winter, with side floats so would not tip? Total traveling distance on the river is less than a mile. I have been thinking about a new 19 for this for a while.

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    I should add that the load would be 450-650 pounds.

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    a lot depends on the distance between the waves if this is a river no problem if the waves are on a lake from the wind different, the distance between is the keen point , river just give it power an go , on the longer canoes you need to stand up to run so you can see what is up frount coming at you ,
    a lot of us have lifts on the units an gives us something to hold on to , don't get me wrong higher sides would be great ,
    the more weight you put into it , the slower you go [ paddle or motor ] you have to move the water out of the way , the Grumman with a 15HP 2 cycle . can take a lot of water ,
    SID

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid View Post
    a lot depends on the distance between the waves if this is a river no problem if the waves are on a lake from the wind different, the distance between is the keen point , river just give it power an go , on the longer canoes you need to stand up to run so you can see what is up frount coming at you ,
    a lot of us have lifts on the units an gives us something to hold on to , don't get me wrong higher sides would be great ,
    the more weight you put into it , the slower you go [ paddle or motor ] you have to move the water out of the way , the Grumman with a 15HP 2 cycle . can take a lot of water ,
    SID
    This is a quick moving river with waves close together. I will have to try it with my 17.

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    Well, theres a void to fill. Why not start an e-mail campaign to Clipper to add a larger freighter to their line?
    I was trying to find the old Mad River freighter that a fellow I used to work for had back in the '80s. It was Kevlar. Its in this catalog on page 11, the Grand Laker. 21', 120 lbs.
    http://www.madrivercanoe.com/content...MRC%201986.pdf
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    That Monarch on page 9 looks alot like the canoe Bob used on his log journey this summer Believe the designed was the builder of BeaV canoe.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Interesting build of a 20 ft freighter. Designer has plans, and molds for 22, 24 ft as well.

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...freghter-canoe

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    What about the Northwoods Pelly 22? Pricey at almost $5K, but stats look comparable to the HB.

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    Wow, that Pelly has one but ugly bow! It's also about 5000.00! They might sell some now though,

    There is also the Nor-West Canoe Company. I used to own an Arctic (When I lived in the Arctic), Great and beautiful design wood and canvas construction.

    http://nor-west.ca/en/our-canoes/

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    Default more about nor-west?

    I'm lovin' that Nor West online catalog. What a nice array of supercanoes. Has anyone seen one of these in use up here? Their 18' Athabasca Special caught my eye - love that front decking... I could make that work. Then thoughts of the 20', then the 22......what a slippery path.

    Anyone know the shipping costs of one of these to Alaska?

    Thanks for posting this up, North61.

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