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Thread: 2 Accidents in two months

  1. #1
    Member FullCryHounds's Avatar
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    Default 2 Accidents in two months

    Trying to find some info on a couple of accidents. In Sept, owner and pilot of Northern Air Trophy had an engine failure up on the Wolick river north of Kotzebue. I heard it was Helicopered out. It was a C-180. Then a week or two ago, the same pilot totaled one of Warren Johnson's planes down at Bear Lake on the peninsula. I heard that the pilot was not injured in either accident. Unable to find any information about either accident. Can anyone confirm this info?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FullCryHounds View Post
    Trying to find some info on a couple of accidents. In Sept, owner and pilot of Northern Air Trophy had an engine failure up on the Wolick river north of Kotzebue. I heard it was Helicopered out. It was a C-180. Then a week or two ago, the same pilot totaled one of Warren Johnson's planes down at Bear Lake on the peninsula. I heard that the pilot was not injured in either accident. Unable to find any information about either accident. Can anyone confirm this info?
    What are your intentions with said information? Also, search the Alaska newspapers for some info, its there.

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    Glad the pilot is OK

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    Member FullCryHounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fssks17 View Post
    What are your intentions with said information? Also, search the Alaska newspapers for some info, its there.
    My intentions are to find out what happened and why. A search online comes up with nothing. Several buddies have a trip planned with this outfit and they are not having much luck finding anything out except rumors. Was hoping to find out if what happened was just that, an accident and not some of the rumors floating around. Fortunately, they didn't book with the outfit that you've been recommending on here, Ram Aviation, that guy is in prison! Now we find out that his buddy is this pilot that just had two accidents in three weeks. So, yea, just a little bit concerned right now. wouldn't you be?

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    The only one I heard anything about from the Klotz area during Sept. was this one...

    http://articles.ktuu.com/2013-09-15/soldotna_42067470

    http://www.adn.com/2013/09/14/307557...to-rescue.html

    http://www.adn.com/2013/09/15/307722...pitalized.html

    UNLESS IT WAS ONE OF THESE>>>>


    Date: 14-SEP-13
    Time: 21:06:00Z
    Regis#: N8316Q
    Aircraft Make: CESSNA
    Aircraft Model: 206
    Event Type: Accident
    Highest Injury: Serious
    Damage: Substantial
    City: KOTZEBUE
    State: Alaska
    Description: AIRCRAFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES, NEAR KOTZEBUE, ALASKA
    INJURY DATA


    IDENTIFICATION
    Date: 13-SEP-13
    Time: 20:50:00Z
    Regis#: N2736C
    Aircraft Make: CESSNA
    Aircraft Model: 170
    Highest Injury: None
    Damage: Unknown
    City: STUYAHOK
    State: Alaska
    Description: AIRCRAFT ON LANDING NEAR THE STUYAHOK RIVER SUSTAINED UNKNOWN DAMAGE, 12 MILES FROM STUYAKHOK, ALASKA




    Date: 14-SEP-13
    Time: 00:49:00Z
    Regis#: N8249Q
    Aircraft Make: PIPER
    Aircraft Model: PA12 Highest Injury: None
    Damage: Unknown
    City: TYONEK
    State: Alaska
    Description: AIRCRAFT ON LANDING FLIPPED OVER, 18 MILES FROM TYONEK, ALASKA
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

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    Well full cry, welcome to the reality of guides in Alaska. That guy you talk about being in jail, is a very talented off airport pilot. It was his method of paying taxes to the Feds that landed him in jail. These guides fly in some pretty tough conditions. I can't sit here and judge from my easy chair... I have felt the pressure to push the envelope to pick people up who were stranded in less than ideal flying conditions. Sometimes waiting for ideal conditions never happens. When bad weather goes on and on...you adapt to reacting to the lesser of the bad wx. So to judge pilots who are flying in the worst of the worst conditions... Walk a mile in their shoes, before you assault their character or skill level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pipercub View Post
    Well full cry, welcome to the reality of guides in Alaska. That guy you talk about being in jail, is a very talented off airport pilot. It was his method of paying taxes to the Feds that landed him in jail. These guides fly in some pretty tough conditions. I can't sit here and judge from my easy chair... I have felt the pressure to push the envelope to pick people up who were stranded in less than ideal flying conditions. Sometimes waiting for ideal conditions never happens. When bad weather goes on and on...you adapt to reacting to the lesser of the bad wx. So to judge pilots who are flying in the worst of the worst conditions... Walk a mile in their shoes, before you assault their character or skill level.
    Right on Pipercub!!! I've flown with Matt and Mike several times, and I wouldn't hesitate for a second to climb into a plane with either one.

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    I've been flying in Alaska for 17 years, all off airport, so I know a little about what I'm talking about. And if you don't think Mr. Spisak is in prison because of his poor character, or judgement, then that's too bad. It was exactly his choice, and poor judgement, that got him right where he's at! That tells me a lot about his character. Please quote where I assaulted anyone's character!


    Quote Originally Posted by pipercub View Post
    Well full cry, welcome to the reality of guides in Alaska. That guy you talk about being in jail, is a very talented off airport pilot. It was his method of paying taxes to the Feds that landed him in jail. These guides fly in some pretty tough conditions. I can't sit here and judge from my easy chair... I have felt the pressure to push the envelope to pick people up who were stranded in less than ideal flying conditions. Sometimes waiting for ideal conditions never happens. When bad weather goes on and on...you adapt to reacting to the lesser of the bad wx. So to judge pilots who are flying in the worst of the worst conditions... Walk a mile in their shoes, before you assault their character or skill level.

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    Wow 17 whole years! Why are you in Colorado then? Are you a snowbird pilot?

    I've been up here for 34 years... I fly all year round.

    I've never worked for or with Matt or Mike. But I have flown alongside them, in the same areas, doing the same type of flying. You ever fly in the Arctic Winter? That is from Fall to Spring? I personally know what those two pilots are capable of doing, day-in, day-out... That is all I need to know. Neither one of them are selling themselves as pillars of the community. They are not "go to church on Sunday" type characters... Like I said how many winters have you spent in the Arctic pal? How about the sub-arctic? This isn't Colorado, the new land of the plastic(phony)people. (since they moved out of California)

    You are unknown to me...take your standards somewhere else, where they might actually be relevant.

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    I didn't find anything unreasonable about fullcryhounds request for information. I flew in Alaska for 33 years. I live in Hawaii now. I flew everywhere in Alaska including the arctic in the winter, Kodiak Island in the winter, southeast Alaska in the winter, out of Fairbanks in the winter, 11 years out of Cordova in the winter, out of Barter Island and Deadhorse, Umiat, Barrow, Coldfoot, and all over south central, the Alaska range, the Brooks Range, the north slope in the winter. Never flew the Aleutians though. Of all the areas I flew, the arctic was by far the easiest. Have you ever flown southeast or Kodiak in the winter or at anytime? There are plenty of rugged types in Colorado and here in Hawaii as well. There are plenty of wimpy liberals in Alaska as well as rugged live-in the-bush types and everything in between. Sweeping generalizations about people living in any part of the country are always incomplete and over-simplified in direct proportion to the lack of knowledge of the persons making the generalizations.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by FullCryHounds View Post
    My intentions are to find out what happened and why. A search online comes up with nothing. Several buddies have a trip planned with this outfit and they are not having much luck finding anything out except rumors. Was hoping to find out if what happened was just that, an accident and not some of the rumors floating around. Fortunately, they didn't book with the outfit that you've been recommending on here, Ram Aviation, that guy is in prison! Now we find out that his buddy is this pilot that just had two accidents in three weeks. So, yea, just a little bit concerned right now. wouldn't you be?
    When I recommended the outfit, I assumed that those looking for the recommendation were basing their decisions on two main criteria; success and safety. Now that he is in prison, that does not negate the suggestion. When it comes to flying, he has always run a tight ship. You could probably look into it if you were truly concerned and find the lack of fatalities under any and all of the certificates that he has owned. While he may not be available to fly right now, I can guarantee that the operation is still running SAFELY. If you find otherwise, let us know.

    I would assume that if you have been doing off airport for 17 years, you have also dinged up an airplane or two. Or you're not doing too much of it each year.

    Back to the original subject, I think given that there are no reports of a crash in Kotz, it probably didn't happen. The one on the peninsula, I did your research for you... http://www.adn.com/2013/10/11/312074...bay-pilot.html

    Now, if you ask those operating out of Kotz if they have a squeaky clean off airport record like you're evidently looking for, you'll probably find two things; those that don't, and those that are dishonest. Perhaps you should put your 17 years of skill to work and take your buddies out yourself. Anything less would be irresponsible.

    Also, what are these "rumors floating around" that you speak of? Oh, and the source of these "rumors?"

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    Well Monguse, did you know that they mistakenly imported the Mongoose to Hawaii? They thought they would help control the growing rat problem. The only problem was the rats are nocturnal and the Mongoose is sleeping then...oh well...so why Monguse?

    I think you missed the gist of my mssg to full cry... Although you should have picked up on it, if you have done and been where you said. To use your lower 48 standards to judge people who live and work in Alaska just doesn't work. You should know that. A bush operator who built his business in an Eskimo village in the Arctic, doesn't necessarily live by your standards in Hawaii or some blowhard from Colorado, or even Fairbanks or Anchorage...it is the wild west out there still....fssks17 pretty much sums up the way full cry came across, mr high and mighty demanding answers... And pretty much clueless about the situation...but what do you expect from Colorado these days...the place really has gone to hell in a handbasket...the liberal environmentalist have taken over... Gun control in Colorado, who would have figured a good western heritage state would have gone that way...I just had to throw in some more broad sweeping geographic generalizations....for good measure...

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    Some of you guys should slack off a little. I've flown the polar bears when they were still legal game, and the Arctic ain't no big deal. I've landed in the blue hole off Belize's coast, flown Florida's thunderstorms, a dab of it in SEA, and almost 18,000 hours of the Alaska Range, sometimes rather challenging flying. Flying is flying, and there is little difference no matter when you poke your little airplane. Air is air, period. Yes, some of it is good and some of it is bad, but it's all the same. California's standing wave conditions are pretty sobering, as is some of Alaska's whiteout weather. Still, it's all just flying, and my thirteen large pilot logs pretty much attest to that.

    As for checking a pilot's credentials and abilities, a guy is a fool for not trying his very best to do just that.

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    Default NTSB Records

    Quote Originally Posted by FullCryHounds View Post
    Trying to find some info on a couple of accidents. In Sept, owner and pilot of Northern Air Trophy had an engine failure up on the Wolick river north of Kotzebue. I heard it was Helicopered out. It was a C-180. Then a week or two ago, the same pilot totaled one of Warren Johnson's planes down at Bear Lake on the peninsula. I heard that the pilot was not injured in either accident. Unable to find any information about either accident. Can anyone confirm this info?
    All aircraft accidents are reported to the NTSB, which maintains an online database: http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/month.aspx

    I did not find the described accidents there, perhaps you have more information with which to search.

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    If the events mentioned were not on the accident database they could have been incidents. One can fall short of the criteria for defining the wreck as an accident but still tear things up pretty good.
    Louis Knapp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis View Post
    If the events mentioned were not on the accident database they could have been incidents. One can fall short of the criteria for defining the wreck as an accident but still tear things up pretty good.
    Louis,

    Thank you for your post. I thought of this about an hour after posting, but could not remember the criterion for reporting. So, here it is:


    All aircraft accidents must be reported to the nearest National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) Field Office. An understanding of the definition of accident may save you from reporting something that is not required. Once you have determined that you are required to report the situation, you must report it immediately to the nearest NTSB office. You do not report it to the FAA.
    49 CFR §830.2 provides definitions for aircraft accident, serious injury and substantial damage as follows:
    Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage.
    So the key to this definition is knowing what is meant by a “serious injury and “substantial damage”.
    Serious injury means any injury which:

    • (1) Requires hospitalization for more than 48 hours, commencing within 7 days from the date of the injury was received;
      (2) results in a fracture of any bone (except simple fractures of fingers, toes, or nose);
      (3) causes severe hemorrhages, nerve, muscle, or tendon damage;
      (4) involves any internal organ; or
      (5) involves second or third degree burns, or any burns affecting more than 5 percent of the body surface.

    Substantial damage means damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component.
    The following are NOT considered “substantial damage”:

    • • Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one engine fails or is damaged,
      • bent fairings or cowling, dented skin, small punctured holes in the skin or fabric,
      • ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, and
      • damage to landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips.

    In addition to report all aircraft accidents, the following aircraft incidents must be reported to NTSB:
    (a) Flight control system malfunction or failure.
    (b) Inability of any required flight crew member to perform their normal flight duties as a result of injury or illness.
    (c) Failure of structural components of a turbine engine excluding compressor and turbine blades and vanes.
    (d) Inflight fire.
    (e) Aircraft collide in flight.
    (f) Damage to property, other than the aircraft, estimated to exceed $25,000 for repair (including materials and labor) or fair market value in the event of total loss, whichever is less.

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