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Thread: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

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    Default 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

    585 HE ---Tested Super Strong --
    If you've followed our work in 12ga FH thread in Reloading, you've seen
    our 585 HE cartridge and its development. We have barrels
    of cases and more coming.
    We have put it in all kinds of guns, and tested it with 650gr
    bullet over 3000 fps as heavy load to test the brass, and also
    for lighter game like deer and hogs and target fun we found
    that some of 440gr- 540gr 58cal Minie bullets work great
    First picture shows it next to 505 Gibbs, it has same overall
    loaded length as a Gibbs. Holds up to 190gr ball powder
    under bullets...
    Next pic is a barrel of cases..
    Third representative of types of guns we have it in.Ed
    .
    .
    .

    And We get asked about recoil. Guns are weighted a little, thick pads,
    can be ported, use moderate loads, they shoot nice...And moderate
    loads still much faster than 577NE. And can be had without costing a
    years pay. Most local(NA) users(only 1 in 10000 hunters go Africa) can
    shoot lighter .585 Minie bullets, which load for total about 95 cents each,
    once you have cases. Great for target fun, hogs, deer, etc... Cases
    last forever. We can load to any power level we need or want.
    Folks can get 100 cases, dies, barrel to put in something, 750 bucks.

    Asked about #1, And perfect case for the Ruger #1.
    The few #1s ever done in 577, they had to relieve
    metal behind the action shoulders that breach block
    rests against because of rim. Ours don't have to and the #1s
    extractors I've seen work better with belted than big rimmed.
    Ours holds more powder, cases built for extreme pressures.Ed


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    Case doesn't need special made shellholder, number 31 RCBS fits fine.
    It is a straight belted case that holds up to 190gr of doublebase powder.
    Powder need not be like charcoal, IE, really slow powder, as necked
    needs. So it has effiencies of 37-39%, where necked cases are
    about 29%. Here is one done in a Savage..

    The loads tested at high pressures about 65,000 psi, when extracting, the
    weight of the bolt after opening pulled cases out. We've fired moderate
    loads in singleshots that we mono-blocked barrels into and the cases fall
    out after firing. Here are couple a nice singles with 585HE in them.


    Cases are made super strong, in the same factory run as the super
    high pressure Cheytac cases. The base of our case is same size ahead of
    belt as Cheytac/Gibbs bases. Done with same cups and draws, just uses
    a different header, bunter, and sizer. Here is picture of the one we made
    and the factory one sectioned showing the strong built inside corners.
    These are not balloon head junk cases.

    We and CH4D have die sets, Manson makes reamers, and we have some.
    Reamer specs all set and the chambers made with them, the cases
    extract at the highest pressures.
    Here is pic of one we set with 585HE in a Greener GP.Ed

     
     
     

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    You continue to do great work and show what can be done as opposed to making the shortest magnum like the big boys.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    WE get asked about whether the 585HE is a DD due to being
    over 50 cal, and no it is not, as we applied for and got a
    sporting cartridge exemption few years ago.
    First picture is base view of cases new and old. On the left is
    4 new ones that come with no headstamp that I stamped,
    and the 6 new ones in the middle has a 585 stamp.
    We got a barrel full without stamp and guys can wildcat
    them and put their own stamp on..
    Second is side view with some in # 31 holders.No special
    holders needed. .Notice how uniform belts are on the new
    shiny ones. Dark ones are ones I made years ago.
    Third is one with AP bore rider bullet in with others
    behind. Maybe make a great long range target cartridge.
    Got a guy setting up one with long heavy barrel for that.



    Here is picture of 585HE with 700gr HP CEB bullet and 750 gr
    wide meplat CEB bullet..Ed


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    In the pictures above you see the older first cases I made from Nyati
    cases and other cases that were Nyati clones. These were straight basic,
    long, untrimed cases, so I could get the longer case we wanted.
    We get asked about the process of doing it and here is picture sketch
    showing original case, a case with the start of a belt step, and finally
    a case after it is swaged and sized. Note the belt diameter ends up the
    same as the base diameter of the original brass. These cases we made
    years ago was how we got the 585HE started and tested and some guns
    done. This process can only work with original cases that have a thick
    corner radius to leave plenty of thickness ahead of the belt. In doing this
    process with different wildcats we have found cases that wouldn't work.

    Now these cases have a diameter that works with regular bolt guns,
    without extreme machining on the bolt, as opposed to 577NE and Trex.
    Here is picture of a case held in a Ruger bolt, for example..

    And our case is large enough capacity to get the power, without being an
    oversize, soft case. Thicksided cases relative to size of the case are much
    harder to harden the heads and the lower body back up to proper strength.
    because of the extreme annealling needed, in the drawing
    and heading operations in the manufacturing process.
    Our cases are made with same cups and draws as the ultra high pressure
    Cheytac cases, and our real high pressure tests show they perform with
    no extraction problems.

    Here is picture of a O/U I had top barrel sleeved with smooth tube, and use
    the 585HE in it with lightweight, hollowbase Minie bullets. Shoots about as
    accurate as foster slugs in a 12ga. Bottom barrel is 3.5" 12ga smooth.

     
     
     
     
     

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    Some more info- For guys in other countries you can get cases
    from Bertram in Australia. I can send die sets. There is a guy
    in AUS that has a reamer I sent him.
    We have experimented with black powder type of loads and the
    Minie bullets, The Minies we use are the ones measuring .585".
    Also for reduced loads with lesser amounts of powder we found
    that 24ga wads work perfect in the case, like in this picture.

    WE did couple guns in smooth barrel to test hollowbase Minies.
    Found that they work for shot in our case. Holds 3/4 oz of shot.
    Put a 24ga card on top and glue it in.

    We even got one in good ole NEF, with a 585 barrel monoblocked
    into it and gun weighted, with thick pad. Guy in TX got one also
    and there is video on ytube-- URL below-- Ed

     
     
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=HypaUdwQGAc
     
     
     
     

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    We have a guy who is working toward getting the 585HE cases into
    Canada, for guys there to be able to get them from him..
    Our case works for black powder type of loads using .585" Minie
    Bullets also. Here is picture sectioned case with 4 Pyrodex 54 cal
    pellets stacked behind a 440 gr Minie Bullet.Goes over 2500.
    Can be loaded with 3 pellets and 24ga cushion wad.

    Here is an innovation in a 585HE Falling Block we did. It's in a
    one piece thumbhole rifle stock. Nice to handle and shoots heavy
    loads a comfortable as a weighted bolt action gun. FBW brand.

    Here is a bunch of barrels we have, the wrapped ones are slow
    twist just for guys doing 585HE guns to use Minie bullets for
    deer, hogs, target, and plain ole fun Using black or smokeless.

    Here is picture of one being done by a guy on a big Enfield with a
    nice figured Walnut stock. It is weighted and has a thick pad.
    Being done African style with thick barrel and integral front sight.
    You can see a bunch cases in background shelf.--Ed

     
     
     
     

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    Hooray the first batch 585 barrels from McGowen has got here, more
    will be built.They are the regular 1 to 20 twist barrels, and we have 14
    that are profiled and polished, and 3 others that are straight blanks,
    1 to 20 twist. And 6 slow twist barrel blanks for guys doing mainly
    Minie bullet guns, and bunch smoothbore blanks...Pics soon.
    Here are couple more pictures of the gun guy is doing with nice stock.


    Here is picture, 585 FBW falling block with Hogue Knoxx Compstock.
    Helps reduce recoil in this lighter gun. Ed

     

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    Here is picture of the barrels from McGowen, with other barrels.
    We got most of the McGowens profiled and some straight blanks.
    Others we have are the slow twist and smooth...In back some
    of the cases and die sets.

    Here is picture of an Enfield and a BBK in Hogue recoil
    reducing stocks. These stocks are the rubber coated with
    the easy to grip, nice pistol grip..Have Mcgowen 26 inch barrels,
    1 to 20 twist, barrels are heavy profile and taper
    to .980 inch at the muzzle.

    Here is a visual comparison of why I really like Enfields and
    Rugers for big bore work. An Enfield on the left.... Lugs
    built much stronger, simpler to put barrels in actions,
    without the wall in the middle of front reciever. Easier
    to shape breaches to feed big cases, so they don't hang up.
    Left lug longer and forward, simpler to do bolt faces to hold
    bigger cases...Ed

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    Here is picture of 585HE in a Montana Rifle Co. PH action.
    The double stack mag for the 505 Gibbs they make works ok.
    The Enfield in the Hogue stock above is gone.

    We also had guy show us how the case can work for a
    high energy subsonic cartridge. High energy for subsonic
    1600 gr at 1050 fps. The 585HE Whisper
    Anyone with some way overbore 14.9 mm necked
    cases on huge actions, can make case inserts for
    using our case to fire subsonic And fire 650gr or 750 gr at
    high speeds. Can't get 14.9 Russian cases use ours in
    same gun with inserts.

     
    Break action I like we did on a CBC by mono-blocking in a 585
    barrel set up especially for Minie bullets of 440 to 540 gr.
     

     

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    Here is a few of the variety of bullets we found or know about
    to use in 585HE, about a third of them, from 440gr, to 750gr,
    to 1200gr, to 1600gr.

    Here is picture of what 200gr powder, in a case that had
    the powder settled, looks like.

    We now have more 585 new straight blanks giving a total of 9
    basic blanks, with long ones for guys setting up target guns.
    And a bunch more of the profiled barrels are being made
    now to go with new ones we got left. One went on this BBK
    pictured, 3 on Enfields, one on FBW, one a Ruger.
    Guys have used 5 of the new slow twist barrels. Ed


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    There is a guy and his smith in AUS that has a reamer for the 585HE.
    And maybe another firm there that can get a bunch reasonably priced
    barrels imported in from the US. Our Mcgowen barrels are high quality,
    hand lapped, and only half of what getting them in from other places cost.
    Here is part of stuff that the guys have to work with..

    Here is picture of the Mossy 390 action, after I'd set up for the 585HE.
    Just to see how good the action is, and I have since set barrel back
    and made it into a 24ga FH. Just makes an easy to work with test gun.
    Being both use same size bore, and in 24ga with 3" chamber I can use
    577 brass for 24ga cases, using same Minie and jacketed as 585HE.
    58CAL IN ALL FORMS is where it is at, so to speak......Ed

    PS-We have longer barrels now for target work including real heavy ones
    of 1 5/8 inches, that some guys are working on getting bigger actions
    set up to use them in. .

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    Here is a picture of the first 585HE to be done and firing,
    in Australia, owned by the poster, tankhunter on AR forums.
    Fellows there can get cases from Bertram. I can send
    dies and reamers.And can get dies from CH4D.
    There soon will be 3 reamers there.
    And now a company starting to make 585 barrels there.
    I have about 17 here, so no waiting here.
    Allan and Grant Swan. in Redbank, Queensland...
    allanswan at uplink.net.au.

    WE have cases with plain heads if guys need some for
    wlldcatting, necking down, and they can put on their
    own headstamp.Ed


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    We've put some of the 585HE bolt guns in composite and Hogue
    stocks, and they are rugged for extreme weather. And they
    don't break under heavy loads. Prices are nice and they have
    aluminum pillars and/or aluminum bedding blocks.
    And with their hollow butts very easy to add weight to take up
    recoil. If lead and epoxy added to a complete fill of the hollow,
    too much weight, so I found a nice cheap substitute.
    We now using rubber coated mouse balls that we have bunch of.
    They are steel with rubber coating, and the right weight.
    They add just the right weight and and wedge in good.
    And won't rattle with coating, and we hold them in tight with
    a piece of dense foam under butt pad.

    We get asked about how much speed potential we have. And
    we start by mentioning cases can hold 190-200 gr of ball powder
    with the bullets loaded out longer. And we have those heavy
    powder loads with 650 gr jacketed bullets, in the Enfield
    pictured I use as one of my test guns.

    And more fun shooting, using a pistol grip on one of the
    585HE falling block test guns. Real heavy loads try to spin us
    around like a weathervane.. Ed

     
     

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    A related case to our 585 is the 24ga FH that has 3" chamber and
    brass cases reworked 577NE cases, that we reduce the rim down
    to .720"... the 24ga size rim...We make minimum chamber so that 24ga
    plastic cases, 2.5" long just fit. And min chamber cuts down on a lot
    of brass case expansion, which the wears cases out.
    The barrels are same bore barrels as our 585 and the hollowbase minie
    bullets work great in it, the ones that are .585", 440gr to 540gr.
    Makes hairy 24ga gun for deer, etc. Be useful in shotgun only areas.
    Guys on GB sells the .585" minies. And the brass cases, we don't have
    to wait for them to be made.

    Here is what 585HE barrel and its monoblock look like before
    screwing the barrel in.This one was 585HE, but process same if
    monoblocking in 24ga FH...Ed

     

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    Here is picture of 585HE with 24ga FH ...585 the longer one.
    Both use same bullets/slugs, same caliber rifled barrels.
    Different easy usages, 24ga FH is an easy setup in break
    actions and 585HE in bolt actions and falling blocks.

    Picture of non-discarding 585/24ga sabot cup I found that holds
    458 bullets and slugs tight. It had hammerhead type slug in it that
    someone pulled out, and they wouldn't stay in tight after pulled.
    Supposed to be for 20ga, But this sabot was a real loose fit
    in 20ga, though made for 20ga, so I shrunk diameter of bottom rib,
    fits perfect, super tight, in 24ga and 585HE brass cases. A press
    in tight fit gives good resistance for good ignition. real tight fit.

    Here is a 24ga/585 discarding sabot that holds .452" 45cal pistol
    bullets. Made by Hornady for 58cal Muzzle loaders..
    With 250 gr bullet in 585HE, hopped up load will go about mach 4.

    For ease of getting actions in stocks, I like composites.They are
    strong. come colors, many can be painted with tough finish paints.
    Usually need weight added for big bore use. But not too miuch..
    An easy way to weight plastic stocks with hollow butts, use rubber
    coated computer mouse balls, weight comes out perfect, without being
    too heavy if using that much lead. And coating keeps them quiet, and
    we hold them in, with piece dense foam under butt pad....Ed


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    First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankhunter with his Ruger #1.
    If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round on the buffs hide
    next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed

     
    I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise, figuring out an
    extractor is a problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga
    one with big diameter bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger
    than the lugs in a big PH bolt action. So one day will do one
    on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed


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    Here is picture of 100 cases loaded with CEB solid nose bullets
    and hollowpoints. This bullet is a turned solid with wide meplat
    or wide hollowpoint. .

    Here is pic of a Enfield with a jeweled and polished bolt, going
    to be 585HE. In the back, Bolt jeweling and polishing done by the
    great craftsmen, Bob Snapp, years ago.

    Picture comparing unfired and fired cases showing our tough cases
    One on the left fired with 650gr at 2400 and base above belt
    didn't hardly expand, Sized the top and reloaded/shot again.
    And AHC will make guns now with our 585HE for any wanting
    super top quality guns.They have some cases to give to guys
    as a sample to show guys the case. Ed


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    Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
    Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like. Usually
    set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
    size to 577NE, to the 585 Nyati with the picture of Ross Seyfreid
    shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
    off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over,
    to our 585HE the strongest yet.
    The 577NE is an offshoot of the 24 gauge caliber, only they went
    eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
    cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the
    577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
    then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"
    and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet
    of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
    diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns
    and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed
    and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
    was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
    over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.
    Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a
    24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and
    reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
    stamp the caseheads 24 ga.
    For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
    the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding
    reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.
    The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
    about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.
    We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,
    with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.
    Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,
    break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
    goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
    Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed
    to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
    energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
    gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the
    actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
    So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power.
    .Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.
    Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
    and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed

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    Here is a different look at 585 sabots holding 458cal bullets.

    Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.

    I do like Enfields to put our 585 in, and one of the reasons is
    they have bigger bolt lugs than most, by bigger they have more
    cross section where the lug is on the bolt body. And the left lug
    is longer forward so as to support the case, after the bolt face is
    opened for the bigger case, as the extractor
    pushes the case to the left.

     
    Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from
    here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.
    The here being the US, and with our group here, also having
    barrels, dies, cases, and McGowen with barrels in stock,
    CH4D with 585HE dies in stock, shops with # 31 shellholders.
    And later a few retail outlets setup with cases in stock...Ed .

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