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Thread: Well . . . I canít say that anymore!

  1. #1
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    Default Well . . . I canít say that anymore!

    Iíve often said I never stuck a case using Imperial Wax . . . Well I donít know how but I done did it. These are once fired nickel 300WM brass, Winchester brand. I donít like nickel because they size hard and can score a die but they arenít mine and now-a-days a guy has to work with what ya got.
     
    I was working on my old Lyman turret press, still one of my favorites cuz I donít got to change dies when jumping around doing small batches. All was going well, a bit grumpy going in but coming out fine. Then POP! The J to X type shell holder adapter busted off at the retaining pin hole. I figured it was just old and tired but I donít have another so I broke out the Rockchucker and set up in that.
     
    Screwed the die in and snapped the shell holder backward into the ram and over the case rim at the same time. Made sure everything was well seated and promptly ripped the rim right off the case!
     
    Moving on to plan ďCĒ I busted out my stuck case tools. Drilled and taped it to ľ-20 and went to town with the wrenches . . . And that just ripped the threads out of the case head! Fellas this son-o-gun is STUCK!!
     
    So on to plann ďDĒ at this point, trouble was I had never needed to develop a plan D before so didnít have one . . . coffee time! Plan D turned out to be my 20 ton shop press and making a stem in the lathe that would push the case and Lee stem out from the inside. Got it into the press and after more pumping that I ever imagined it would take SNAP, POP, pop, pop as it came loose. Good golly was that thing ever stuck in there!

    Then I cut the case and press the stem back out of the primer hole with the shpo press, after all the force I had applyed pressing the case out the stem shot to the floor like a boolit when it broke free.
     
    It all came out fine, no damage to the die or parts. I donít know what went wrong here, I doubt it was the Impearl Wax . . . Must have been some freak thing with the plaiting wrinkling and wedging it in like a Chinese finger trap or something. I had no idea one could ever get stuck that tight but she sure did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    ...nickel....
    Had the same experience once with another lube and nickel cases, but never with Imperial. My plan D was Cerrosafe and a big hammer, for lack of a shop press.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    ...nickel...
    Note to self...
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    I normally avoid bottlenecked nickel cases but donít mind it in pistol if itís free, get lots of free 38/357 in nickel. This is good brass (as nickel goes) though, started with 112 of them and now have 110. Killed this one getting it out and one was flaking at the rim from the get go so got the pliers treatment.
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    Seems like they always stick at the base.

    RCBS says so too.

    No matter what lube, it needs to be on the base.

    Did you lube that area good?

    When you got the case out, was the nickel finish cracked?

    Rough?

    Was the case thicker than normal there?

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    Seems like they always stick at the base.

    RCBS says so too.

    No matter what lube, it needs to be on the base.

    Did you lube that area good?

    When you got the case out, was the nickel finish cracked?

    Rough?

    Was the case thicker than normal there?

    SOTN
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    It was lubed all up, down, and in. I even take the Q-tip I use for inside and swipe the base of the die every handful of rounds.
     
    Werenít anything I could see wrong with my spy glass once I got it out of there, even the neck looked fine till I commenced trying to get the stem out of there.
     
    All I can think is the plating was stacking up in a way that the tighter I pulled the tighter it wedged te thing in. Where I cut the base off it does seem a bit thick but I didnít cut any others to compare it too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    It was lubed all up, down, and in. I even take the Q-tip I use for inside and swipe the base of the die every handful of rounds.
     
    Werenít anything I could see wrong with my spy glass once I got it out of there, even the neck looked fine till I commenced trying to get the stem out of there.
     
    All I can think is the plating was stacking up in a way that the tighter I pulled the tighter it wedged te thing in. Where I cut the base off it does seem a bit thick but I didnít cut any others to compare it too.
    That sucks, i've got about 40 nickle plated .375 H&H I was about to start using and I don't have a plan B, C, or D! I use and love imperial wax too, I guess i'll try one and see what happens...

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    Quote Originally Posted by limon32 View Post
    That sucks, i've got about 40 nickle plated .375 H&H I was about to start using and I don't have a plan B, C, or D! I use and love imperial wax too, I guess i'll try one and see what happens...
    Iíll still do them. I lucked out that it was a Lee die that was super easy to take apart with the stuck case. Never thought about it before but I wonít put a bottleneck nickel case into a die now without making sure I can get the top opened up to press it back out if it sticks.
     
    None of the others were bad at all, a little tighter and grumpy sounding going in than non-plated but not bad at all. If you stick one and canít get it out drop it in the mail with a return envelope, I have the plan D tools all made up now so itís no big deal. I think youíll be fine as I have done a bunch of these over the years and it took many a year before this happened. Make sure there is no flaking plate around the mouth and neck before you size each, I scored and ruined a die many moons ago with that flaking off plating thatís hard as sharp glass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Iíll still do them. I lucked out that it was a Lee die that was super easy to take apart with the stuck case. Never thought about it before but I wonít put a bottleneck nickel case into a die now without making sure I can get the top opened up to press it back out if it sticks.
     
    None of the others were bad at all, a little tighter and grumpy sounding going in than non-plated but not bad at all. If you stick one and canít get it out drop it in the mail with a return envelope, I have the plan D tools all made up now so itís no big deal. I think youíll be fine as I have done a bunch of these over the years and it took many a year before this happened. Make sure there is no flaking plate around the mouth and neck before you size each, I scored and ruined a die many moons ago with that flaking off plating thatís hard as sharp glass.
    Thanks for the info! I'll keep plan D in mind!

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    Ah, that's nothing. I ripped the base of a 7mm mag case off in a die. Case head separation in the sizing die. I removed the expander plug/stem, jammed a piece of cloth in the neck and filled the case with melted lead. screwed the die back in the press and used a steel rod through the top of the die with a hammer. Had to refill the case a couple of times before the lead stuck good enough to bring the case out with it. Sometimes things just don't work like their supposed to.

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    HAHAha I just knew the head would come off as I was pumping the press, kept thinking if it dosnít move on the next pump Iím gonna pore it full of cerrosafe . . . then I'd give it yet another worrisome pump.
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    I stuck a nickel 300wmcase once (not using imperial wax ) and it was one heck of a deal to get it out...They sure look pretty loaded butttttttt!
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Well I loaded test loads to get this Ruger shooting, 5 rounds per charge weight, 4 charges, for two powders so 40 rounds. Found that 69g of RL-17 was the winner for 185g VLDs in this rifle. That shot .7 MOA even with my sloppy finger on the trigger all stretched around a 17Ē length of pull stock that don't fit me at all. RL-17 seems like it would be too fast for 300WM but on advice of some trusted folks I tried and it gave equal velocity to RL-22 or H1000 but far super accuracy.
     
    Anyway of the 40 brass I split one neck with the high charge and the nickel flaked on another. So I had 38 usable twice fired to load, these sized and loaded just fine. Sure is a high mortality rate in these shiny snazzy looking nickel cases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    I normally avoid bottlenecked nickel cases but donít mind it in pistol if itís free, get lots of free 38/357 in nickel. This is good brass (as nickel goes) though, started with 112 of them and now have 110. Killed this one getting it out and one was flaking at the rim from the get go so got the pliers treatment.
    Same here. 38, 357, or 44 mag. I been loading nickel brass, but no nickel bottle neck, cept one time when solving a problel for my B-I-L

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    Been working with bottle neck nickle cases for 30 years and don't have the problems you guys do.. so I'm either doing something wrong, or I'm just real unlucky to be missing out on all the fun. I do neck size only, maybe thats the difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdklinak View Post
    Been working with bottle neck nickle cases for 30 years and don't have the problems you guys do.. so I'm either doing something wrong, or I'm just real unlucky to be missing out on all the fun. I do neck size only, maybe thats the difference?
    I think thatís very likely. I believe they stick at the base where there is much more thickness to the brass resisting forming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    I think thatís very likely. I believe they stick at the base where there is much more thickness to the brass resisting forming.
    Now that you mention it - I have managed to stick plain jane brass in full length dies while processing 1x fired stuff. But my nickel cases never see a FL sizer if I can help it. Those that do have a HUGE early failure rate of split cases just ahead of the web.

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    If you are going to use a FL sizer, set the die so it just touches the shoulder but doesn't set it back. Setting back the shoulder causes the brass to stretch long ways and most of the stretching happens just ahead of the base. Neck sizers don't set the shoulder back so you don't get the case separation. And yes, there is a lot more force needed to size the much thicker base and the complete body than just the neck. Yep, I stuck a few and it's normally because of poor lube or not enough lube on the lower half of the case or both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    If you are going to use a FL sizer, set the die so it just touches the shoulder but doesn't set it back. Setting back the shoulder causes the brass to stretch long ways and most of the stretching happens just ahead of the base. Neck sizers don't set the shoulder back so you don't get the case separation. And yes, there is a lot more force needed to size the much thicker base and the complete body than just the neck. Yep, I stuck a few and it's normally because of poor lube or not enough lube on the lower half of the case or both.
    Yup, so long as your loading them only for the gun that the cases were fired in.
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