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Thread: Toward an Alternative to the Community Harvest Regulation

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Toward an Alternative to the Community Harvest Regulation

    We had an exhaustive discussion of Community Harvest here and though some alternatives were suggested in that thread, I thought a separate thread exploring your ideas of a different way of doing it would be beneficial. So without going into the politics involved, your personal feelings about this or that, or other issues related, what are your ideas about how we could do it differently? In other words, if the final decision was up to you, what would you do? Leave it as-is, or replace it with something else?

    Lots of folks in Game Management read these forums, so we really do have an opportunity to be heard right here. Sound off!

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    To begin with: (1) "community" should be more succinctly defined in a traditional sense; and (2) the requirements must be stringently held to in the use of the game taken by a particular community.

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    Have the Moose gone extince yet from this hunt? That seemed to be the message in the last thread, Im wondering hows its turned out, now that times past a bit.


    I think alot has to do with a fellas outlook and point of view.

    If your a part of a 'community' or have the potential to share one around, I'm sure there will be alotta joy......

    If its all about "you' and theres , say, no one to divvi the meats up with or all that appeals to a fella on a Moose is headgear, well those folks will oppose such.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    Define a "community hunt" as follows:

    A group of 10 or more individuals, who identify and apply as a "Community" and are then entitled to a permit to harvest ONE (1) bull moose 50" or larger, spike or fork, during the general harvest season in the appropriate GMU. Noone in the Community shall hunt or harvest a bull moose anywhere in the state beyond the ONE (1) moose they are allotted.

    That should solve the problem that should have never existed....Potlatch? Pfft.... Heres a solution to that:

    Go to local store or online.
    Get hunting license and FREE harvest tag.
    Go hunting and try to harvest a legal bull.
    Share legally harvested bull at a festivity of your choosing.

    Seems like a very simple solution. But I'm sure that I'm wrong...

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkwarthog View Post
    Define a "community hunt" as follows:

    A group of 10 or more individuals, who identify and apply as a "Community" and are then entitled to a permit to harvest ONE ...
    A "community" should have some history, not a hastily and conveniently thrown-together list of fellow workers.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    A "community" should have some history, not a hastily and conveniently thrown-together list of fellow workers.
    Could not agree more, this years "community" harvest was a joke but I guess saying that makes me an "all about me" hunter according to some. Whatever, this should be about traditional use and done so by real communities as sayak has already mentioned.

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    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    Sayak, I hope you caught the sarcasm in my reply. I do not believe in "community" hunts. Hunt for whatever "community" you choose, share the meat however you'd like, but hunt on the harvest tag just like everybody else, IMO.

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkwarthog View Post
    Sayak, I hope you caught the sarcasm in my reply. I do not believe in "community" hunts. Hunt for whatever "community" you choose, share the meat however you'd like, but hunt on the harvest tag just like everybody else, IMO.
    No, I did ;-). And I agree.

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    Member Laker Taker's Avatar
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    You would have to have a residence in the community that you are representing, hunt within a 30 mile radius of the said community and there should be a set quota for any bulls. Once the quota is met, the CH season is closed. You would no longer be able to harvest bulls that would be legal under general harvest requirements for 3 weeks before the GH season opens like the current system allows. Or best case, do away with the welfare hunt all together and make it GH for everyone.

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    Didn't we buy this place several years ago? Doesn't that make it ours? So why are we still trying to come up with all these special this and that groups?
    Were all in this together, same permits, same regulations is how I see it.

    Oh yea, some of us still need to get a job too!

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkwarthog View Post
    Define a "community hunt" as follows:

    A group of 10 or more individuals, who identify and apply as a "Community" and are then entitled to a permit to harvest ONE (1) bull moose 50" or larger, spike or fork, during the general harvest season in the appropriate GMU. Noone in the Community shall hunt or harvest a bull moose anywhere in the state beyond the ONE (1) moose they are allotted.

    That should solve the problem that should have never existed....Potlatch? Pfft.... Heres a solution to that:

    Go to local store or online.
    Get hunting license and FREE harvest tag.
    Go hunting and try to harvest a legal bull.
    Share legally harvested bull at a festivity of your choosing.

    Seems like a very simple solution. But I'm sure that I'm wrong...


    Sayak and dkwarthog have the solution, thats always existed

    Nothing wrong with shareing the catch without makeing a more regulations and such...............and my question, why not just hunt down a fat , calfless cow?
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alasgun View Post
    Didn't we buy this place several years ago? Doesn't that make it ours? So why are we still trying to come up with all these special this and that groups?
    Were all in this together, same permits, same regulations is how I see it.

    Oh yea, some of us still need to get a job too!

    Mike
    Tell that to the Feds! They call the shots... literally.
    As for buying Alaska... well, that came as a surprise to a lot of folks already living here. They weren't conquered and they weren't signers to any treaties ceding land to the USA. To lend credence to their claims, they researched the records and found that Russia actually ONLY sold it's forts, redoubts, trading posts, etc. to the US gov't. That is what ANCSA was all about.

    I kind of agree with you, but I also see the other side of the equation. Meat- all meat- is big time shared in villages. Everybody in that actual community gets some. That is true community harvest.

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    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    Meat- all meat- is big time shared in villages. Everybody in that actual community gets some. That is true community harvest.
    Thats how I look at it.

    Community harvest should be a philosophy, not a regulation or a special entitlement.

  14. #14

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    Eliminate all rural preference/traditional and customary/subsistence/community hunts for anybody on the road system. We could transition from a system that tries to be "fair" by giving special preference to certain groups of people based on their own personal choice of where to live to a system that treats everybody equally. An equal option would be to take the sustainable quota of "any bull" moose available in that unit and have drawing hunts.

    If (due to existing laws and lawsuits) we can't go to an equal system, then prohibit the use of motorized vehicles and pack animals in all rural preference/traditional and customary/subsistence/community hunts. If you are truly a community of any substantial number of households there ought to be plenty of people to pack out moose to share.

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    I'm starting to wonder if we need a regulation at all. Some good points here... if we all hunt General Season, what's to stop us from sharing with our neighbors and friends anyway (our community)? And if your community has a shortage of hunters, well, we have proxy hunting for that.

    The only reason I can think of for an extra hunt is in cases where nonlocal hunters could flood the area, taking game from locals. If that's an issue, I would support a local preference of some sort. I don't really agree with restricting means (banning access methods for example) outside what we need to do to protect the environment.

    Mike
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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post
    The only reason I can think of for an extra hunt is in cases where nonlocal hunters could flood the area, taking game from locals.
    Well, since half the population of the state lives in a place where they can't exactly hunt big game- they have to travel to other areas to hunt. Given our limited road system, it's perfectly understandable that the folks who already live there would feel they're taking game from them. I'm amazed how many people come to my area during hunting season. I don't even hunt my own unit due to the hunting pressure. I'll be interested to see what success ratio is for GMU13 this year- guessing pretty darn low.

    As much as I hate to say it- I believe our road system game resources are getting hammered pretty hard. Probably too hard for long term sustainability of three different game management strategies.

    I'd likely go to a single system of general harvest tags and draws. Given the unequal distribution of our population, we'll never make everyone happy, but we can protect the resource.
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    I am one of those that doesn't see the need for a special community hunt in unit 13. Those living in the true "communities" in unit 13 already have the advantage of living closer to the resource and one would assume they are more familiar with the area.
    This hunt originated by request of some of the natives in the area. The natives in these communities already have exclusive hunting rights to vast areas in the unit. There shouldn't be any need for more exclusive hunting rights.
    Finally as others have already expressed the "community" sharing tradition is just that a tradition. It doesn't require "X" number of animals to be practiced. If the community catches one moose it's shared. If the community catches 35 moose they are shared. The practice will and should continue whether they are given special rights or not.
    I vote to do away with the special community hunts.

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    I think this is pretty simple. Take the current Community Harvest hunts and run them through the paper shredder while leaving a digital copy on file at the state that is stamped, "Didn't work! Never try this again." on the cover.

    Next, make a Tier I moose tag with very specific stipulations. The antler restrictions would be the same as the general harvest. One tag per household. They must get the Tier I Caribou tag in order to get the moose tag. The household season limit is 1 moose and 1 caribou. They can only hunt those 2 tags in Unit 13. The season would run from August 26 to Sept 20, giving them 5 days head start on the HT hunters who don't take a Tier I caribou tag.

    All Alaskans are equal and you can either choose to hunt both moose and caribou in Unit 13 under the Tier tags but without the ability to hunt either critter anywhere else. In exchange you get the leading 10 days for caribou and 5 days for moose. Or you can gamble on a caribou draw and have the ability to hunt moose anywhere.

    It's already been stated but bears repeating... The Ahtna folks in Glennallen already have thousands of acres of their own private land to hunt moose on (and there are lots of moose on their land). The non-Ahtna folks can't hunt there. There is no need for additional special hunt criteria for the fine people of Glennallen when you look at the fact that they have their own private game reserve. They can hunt it by HT on Sept 1st. The HT hunt allows one over the counter tag per person, pretty much the same as the community harvest hunt. They just have to wait until Sept 1 to start. Or they can go with Tier I moose+caribou and get a 'bou from 13 as well as do their moose hunt starting 5 days earlier.

    How simple is that?
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    Member Tearbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hodgeman View Post
    Well, since half the population of the state lives in a place where they can't exactly hunt big game- they have to travel to other areas to hunt. Given our limited road system, it's perfectly understandable that the folks who already live there would feel they're taking game from them. I'm amazed how many people come to my area during hunting season. I don't even hunt my own unit due to the hunting pressure. I'll be interested to see what success ratio is for GMU13 this year- guessing pretty darn low.

    As much as I hate to say it- I believe our road system game resources are getting hammered pretty hard. Probably too hard for long term sustainability of three different game management strategies.

    I'd likely go to a single system of general harvest tags and draws. Given the unequal distribution of our population, we'll never make everyone happy, but we can protect the resource.
    I think it's a good thing that our road system is limited...without massive amounts of roads, and then trails going all over the State. When I look at a map of some of the Sates down in the lesser 48, and the way the road systems look in some States, I cringe...reminds me of a piece of heavily infested wormwood. How can there be a 'Community Hunt' for hunters that don't live in the particular area where the hunt is? If this hunt continues, it should be called something else.
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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    I
    It's already been stated but bears repeating... The Ahtna folks in Glennallen already have thousands of acres of their own private land to hunt moose on (and there are lots of moose on their land). The non-Ahtna folks can't hunt there. There is no need for additional special hunt criteria for the fine people of Glennallen when you look at the fact that they have their own private game reserve.
    It's worth noting that plenty of people who live in Glennallen and other Unit 13 communities are not Ahtna shareholders. I do not support the community harvest hunt in its current form, but the argument that they have their own private hunting lands only applies to a minority of the folks that live in these towns.

    I think your Tier I plan has some merit. I would love to see everyone playing by the same rules, but given the current legal stipulations, that does not seem realistic.

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