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Thread: Limitations of Surface Drive

  1. #1
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    Default Limitations of Surface Drive

    Ok. I have spent enough time on my new 14 HP Copperhead to make some conclusions.

    1) It's a great motor and the best thing going for shallow water and a canoe but it isn't magic. well not totally magic any-way.
    2) When going on a rocky bottom the motor can be tipped up so just a hint of prop hits the water and doesnt ground out, this allows you enough propulsion to get though water as shallow as 3" when pushed by the current (with some ugly scraping sounds)....but when going against the current you can't make progress. Not enough thrust. Therefore you get out and drag and hop back in when and if you hit deeper water 8-10" minimum is what you need against a decent current. Deeper if it's really fast. Add a moose and you'd want more water.
    3) Even the Copperhead is a relatively heavy motor and this makes lifting over obstacles like beaver dams a hard go. Wouldn't want anything heavier. Thank god for the Z-Drag (or a come-along)
    4) If I was going from scratch I'd want an 18 foot canoe with no rear cut out. High Density plastic runners and an overall weight of under 140 pounds mated to 120 pounds of Copperhead motor. I'd lose 80 pounds too, while being taller and a better dancer.
    5) Michael Manzo's rock guard is gold! Saves a lot of pain.
    6) The deep channel is always the one that contains sweepers. The maneverability of the 14HP is really nice. Also lots of stops and starts in shallow stuff. Love the electric start. Wish there was some kind of rig that could keep the motor up as you maneuver it manually into a deep fast current, and allow for an instant disengagement. Feel like a one armed paper hanger sometimes.

    Dragging upstream... 5 hours to get up the stream, 1 hour to go down


    Dragging in a current is tricky. Easy to lose your footing as my son did yesterday. Dry clothes helped. So did a fire, It hit -3C last night. Four tools helped. The Dustrude Saw, Wetterlings Axe, Ranch Hand Carbine for bears and a great pot for hydration. It also helped that my son picked a spot with lots of dead, standing dry wood to fall in!


    The Pot. I love this pot. I really love it! Is that normal?



    Man..what did I do before you could download maps right into your GPS? There is limited farting around time and using a GPS and Paper Maps is a lot harder..(still have them as back-up though)


    This weekends adventure is here. Lots of fun this surface drive thing. Made it up the river a lot farther than anyone else is.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCl_4...r7OAnV0ceWlkmw

  2. #2
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    That smile says you are loving every minuet of it. I too love that pot and have a few of its mates
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    That smile says you are loving every minuet of it. I too love that pot and have a few of its mates



    Ok..That's a relief. I thought I was the only one with the pot love thing! (That is aluminum pot....) and yes I smile every time I start the Copperhead. Such a lovely piece of work.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by North61 View Post
    Ok..That's a relief. I thought I was the only one with the pot love thing! (That is aluminum pot....) and yes I smile every time I start the Copperhead. Such a lovely piece of work.
    North I love the pot. I've got one just a bit smaller for coffee and tea in my pack every time I hit the river.


    Some people,
    Don't have a pot..................

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    North I love the pot. I've got one just a bit smaller for coffee and tea in my pack every time I hit the river.


    Some people,
    Don't have a pot..................
    Funny how you can fall in love with gear. I was quite happy when doing a course with Mors Kochanski that he dotes on the very same pot!

  6. #6

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    North, appreciate your videos. Keep em' coming.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    That smile says you are loving every minuet of it. I too love that pot and have a few of its mates
    I have the same size pot, I freeze meals in vacuum bags, then heat water to boiling and turn it off and eat 20 minutes later. Big pot makes it happen!
    Thanks for the great videos.

  8. #8
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    While heating the frozen stuff you can throw coffee grounds in the water and when they sink its ready to drink
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Looks like the "Rifle Man" gun....with that big ring !!!!

  10. #10
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    Also looked up the Dustrude saw and saw your video.....your son kept his cool after he jammed his hand while locking the blade in...great job !!!

  11. #11
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    It's a great little rig and gets 2" groups at 75 yards with open sights. The recoil is mild enough for me son to handle it. It also stores in little bitty places!

  12. #12
    Member Yukoner's Avatar
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    Greg, was that video up the M****y? Dude, that water was low with a capital L! Never seen it that low, but I have heard the Teslin is super low too.
    Never wrestle with a pig.
    you both get dirty;
    the Pig likes it.

  13. #13
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    Yes, both rivers are low but the M- word was really low!

  14. #14
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    greg, your 14 is a sweet motor!

    I've tooled up 2 of them, and I'm impressed. For a one-lungah, they are freakishly smooth.

    Right now, I'm playing with the 13 hp briggs 2100 model. This one is equally smooth, but has 21 ft. lbs of torque where your's and mine have 18 ft. lbs. of torque. It may even rev higher, too early to tell.

    Tooled up a 10 horse copperhead (LCT) with a customer the other day. That was pleasantly light to lift or carry.

    Tonight, I'm putting the finishing touches on a 23 hp copperhead with the 23 vanguard. My wonderful folks down there in Louisiana decided to use a mikuni fuel pump.....SWEET! That motor is absolutely stunning. I could still lift it out of the back of the Landcruiser, but def got a touch more weight up high.

    ya'll are running some sweet motors, my poor 12 hp copperhead has had three hard seasons.

  15. #15
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    Michael...I have one more trip this year booked off next Thursday and Friday and will make a 4 day weekend to make one more push for a moose with my son. I love my motor and appreciate all your help getting me going. Starting to get some competence and the 14HP is a very smooth and easy to use unit! Thanks gain and congratulations on your huge moose. Can't wait to hear the whole story.

  16. #16
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    What make and cal. On the lever gun ??? I just picked up a 1949 Model 94 Winchester 30-30... Sweet guns they are !!

  17. #17
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    The lever shown is my tent gun. It is a 44 Magnum Rossi Ranch hand with the rear stubby stock replaced with a full sized one. This is not legal without a stamp in the USA as you are converting a pistol; to a sawed off carbine (12" barrel). However in Canada the Ranch Hands are considered carbines so adding some length to the stock is no big deal. 4.5 pounds and 29" long. Holds 4 rounds of ammo in the short little tube. Very sweet rig!

  18. #18
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    there is one limitation that no one has spoken about it is called " REVERSE "
    I know it has saved me a few times , you come around a bend in the stream an there
    is a logjam what do you do to stop , I just hit the " reverse lever an give max gas,
    it stops or slows down a lot as I only have a 19 FT Freighter canoe an have dumped it a couple of time , one of the MFG. were going to make a reverse on one of there motors don't know if they are still playing around with it or not, has any one got information on it ,
    SID

  19. #19
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    great pics and great yukon adventures.i sold off my hudson bay a few years back, but will be getting another before spring. i get the hudson bay without the transom cut out, designed for long shaft.. will the copper head work with that set-up? also how durable is the copper head prop when hitting rocks in shallow water? i want to take the hudson bay down the white or donjek river next fall

    thanks

  20. #20
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    Default HB + copperhead

    Quote Originally Posted by grit View Post
    the hudson bay without the transom cut out, designed for long shaft.. will the copper head work with that set-up?
    I think you nailed it exactly. The surface drives don't like the standard Scott transom, and instead like more assend bouyancy, like a wide transom that is full height/depth and width. And you probably want to address the issue you'll have of wearing down/off that keel in skinny/hard water, like with UHMW protectors.

    grit I'm betting you'll be seeing a picture of well used copperhead prop, in answer to your question. I would imagine the 18HP would be perfect for that setup unless you were a mo' power kinda guy in which case 23HP.

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