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Thread: Bad bullet? No expansion...

  1. #1
    Member mossyhorn's Avatar
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    Default Bad bullet? No expansion...

    This is one round that I recovered from the grizz I shot this year. Hit it twice and the other bullet blew thru. This round was found just under the skin while skinning. I shot the grizz at 60 yards with a 300 win mag 180 gr federal premium nosler accubond. The first hit was slightly quartering away and the bear went ballistic. I shot twice more trying to hit this bear and must of missed once. The bear was down and dead within 15 seconds or so.

    I wouldn't expect this from an accubond but is this from shooting so close? I'm not a guru on this stuff.


    IMG_7827.jpgIMG_7828.jpg

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    what is the age of the factory ammo? some of the older ones had expansion issues.

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    I suspect by it's appearance that the bullet impacted with enough yaw that the design was compromised/ineffective after striking heavy bone at a canted angle, removing the polymer tip (designed to aid expansion) and sealing the copper, thus bending the bullet rendering it a "solid".

    Did it hit heavy bone, or brush on the way to impact?

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    Normally when shooting a high velocity round at close ranges is where you expect a bullet failure, usually the bullet grenades and becomes chest schrapnel. This bullet looks like it impacted a large bone, bending the expansion cavity flat which prohibited the proper expansion, this problem could be enhanced by shooting a wet animal at a less than ideal angle. With the nose flattened at this angle the bullet should have become a lethal spiraling solid, with the off-set nose cutting tissue all the way thru. The bullet would still have transferred all of it's energy into your bear, or it too would have exited. So while your bullet didn't perform as expected, it only failed to expand while delivering it's energy to your target much as a solid would. Bending and flattening soft points were a problem as well in Africa at the first half of the last century, their solution was the round-nosed Full Metal Patch ammo; it seldom bent and drove straight thru to the vitals.
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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    They no longer offer a 30 caliber 180 grain accubond with a cannalure. I suspect it was one of the older ones, judging by the picture.

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    Interesting stuff guys, thanks! It's new ammo, just bought it before the trip. Other than that I don't know how to tell how old it is. Been shooting accubonds out of the gun with good results but this is the first bullet I've recovered. I imagine that it did hit heavy bone. I'm positive this was my second shot. The first was quartering away and should have exited forward. This one was found outside the back ham and had entered from near the front on the opposite side. After the first shot, I was just trying to keep hitting it. It was spinning in circles like a bat out of hell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    They no longer offer a 30 caliber 180 grain accubond with a cannalure. I suspect it was one of the older ones, judging by the picture.
    I can't know if they've offered them (cannelured) in the past, but I don't think so. Nosler provides them to various ammo manufacturers and I buy them as seconds when I can. I've got hundreds (maybe thousands) of 225 NABs in .338 with a cannelure that were sold as seconds. As of right now out of that particular lot I've killed 2 brown bears and a 68 inch moose with those seconds.

    All bullets occasionally do funny things. Hard to know exactly what happened (poor components in manufacturing, poor QC in that lot#, poor original design, funky angle on impact, etc.), but I'm betting the other NAB performed nigh unto perfection for a dead bear within 15 seconds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    They no longer offer a 30 caliber 180 grain accubond with a cannalure. I suspect it was one of the older ones, judging by the picture.
    Maybe-Maybe Not; While AB are no longer offered to reloaders with a cannelure they are offered to manufacturers with one. Last year I purchased a large quantity of 180gr Noslers from Nosler as seconds. Some of these 1000 NP's had cannelures some didn't, same with the AB's. Manufacturers can order them to spec from Nosler, which also includes cannelure location for various calibers/cases.
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    Member mossyhorn's Avatar
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    I just opened up the other boxes I have. I have about 6 boxes of NAB's and they all have cannelures. Even the Nosler trophy grade box I've got.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mossyhorn View Post
    I just opened up the other boxes I have. I have about 6 boxes of NAB's and they all have cannelures. Even the Nosler trophy grade box I've got.
    ALL of your boxes will have a number stamped inside the end flap in ink or embossed into the box. Those are lot numbers put in the box at the time of manufacture and reflect the date and production run. If you know which box your ammo came out of you can contact the manufacturer with the lot number and they can tell you when it was made. Usually an e-mail is effective. You can also tell if your ammo is all the same lot this way; although I'm sure the Nosler Trophy ammo would be a different lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    Maybe-Maybe Not; While AB are no longer offered to reloaders with a cannelure they are offered to manufacturers with one. Last year I purchased a large quantity of 180gr Noslers from Nosler as seconds. Some of these 1000 NP's had cannelures some didn't, same with the AB's. Manufacturers can order them to spec from Nosler, which also includes cannelure location for various calibers/cases.
    well, that just muddies it up a bit. My old accubonds with cannalures from years ago, can't be applied to factory ammo i guess. follow steps one and two when referencing my post:

    step one:


    step two:
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    well, that just muddies it up a bit. My old accubonds with cannalures from years ago, can't be applied to factory ammo i guess. follow steps one and two when referencing my post:

    step one:


    step two:
    Ha ha ha!!! I love it!

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    I am with 338 and would not be surprised if it didn't hit a limb 1st and then heavy bone. I am guessing things were moving along rapidly on shots 2 and 3 and anything could have been between you and BooBoo...
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossyhorn View Post
    I just opened up the other boxes I have. I have about 6 boxes of NAB's and they all have cannelures. Even the Nosler trophy grade box I've got.
    I've never seen a Factory Load, that DIDN'T have a cannelured bullet, and crimp.

    At least, it seems the rule, rather than the exception.

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    Smokey beat me to the thought. I say the bullet hit something before the bear. It squirted the tip and the lead forward of the crimped portion.
    What does the bullet weigh?
    Nosler Accubonds, in their reloading box format come without a cannelure. However Nosler will cannelure bullets for brand X manufacturer if they
    so specify.
    Right now the Acc. is a compromise between their Ballistic Tip and the Partition. The main difference is a thicker copper jacket. However on
    Accubonds over 30 caliber, the copper jacket gets much thicker - almost on par with a Partition.

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    I too have a bunch of 2nds in .30 with cannelures, 150's 165's and 180's all bought within 18 months - I live fairly close and stop in whenever I'm in Bend - One of the interior guys mentioned one day that they had some "issues" with the early accubonds and .30 was the first hole size that hit the market - As you all know, they were engineered to act pretty much exactly like partitions at the terminal end and ballistic tips in flight but I've never heard of a partition doing that either ! makes a guy wonder knowing that Federal and Speer are owned by ATK yet they use Nosler bullets ?

  17. #17

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    A bit off target, but I'll pass along a personal bullet experience that, to this day, I still don't understand.

    I was on an antelope ("goat") hunt in Wyoming.Was shooting a 14" SSK TC in 30-40 A I.Had a 2X LeuyLER in TSOBs.

    My load was a 165 NoslerPT under 54 grs of 4350.Did 2400 over the O33.Very accurate if you could shoot.

    OK:so I had already bagged a nice SCI book buck and we had doe/fawn tags aplenty.Personally, pronghorn is some of my favorite venison.

    We spotted a herd of "goats" and stopped the truck about 300 yards away.I jumped out and set up shop over the pickup hood and touched off a round.This goat looked like a prairie dog in the scope at that range.

    Blam.This sucker went about 10yards and fell over dead.I walked the distance and counted 336 paces...I'm 6'2".So it was a fur piece for a handgun.But back then...mid 80s...I could shoot.

    Here's where it got very bizarre: this goat was almost broadside but quartering slightly when I shot.Bullet impact was further back then I wanted..rear hip area...but that could have been operator error...less than ideal setuo on the hood...or just wind drift.It always blows in Wyoming.

    But when I took a good look, it was evident that there was an exit hole on the same side as the impact hole...but the exit hole was about 3" and this dude had his guts hanging out of his cavity.The exit hole looked like a point blank load of #4 buck...big as a coffee cup.Nothing on the offside.

    When we skinned him, I found a tiny fragment of jacket in the offal.Weighed about 15 grains.Remember, this is a Handloaded Partition.
    Sent this to Nosler with a letter.They wrote back and told me I was an idiot...this couldn't be a Partition...must have been a BT.

    ***? I loaded this ammo for this hunt and I wasn't drunk when I did so.

    So THIS Partition literally came apart and disintegrated inside a 70 lb animal.Probably...I'm guessing here...because the impact velocity was about 1800 fps and it wasn't stabilized at impact.

    I'm sure others have had equally bizarre bullet performance/integrity experience.

    BTW, that goat ate real well.

    7STW

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