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Thread: Valley Coho Returns

  1. #1

    Default Valley Coho Returns

    I am one of the first to bash netters and their impact on coho returns to the valley. I guess I will be the first to apologize. Looking at weir counts and it looks like they did not catch them all. The Little Su and Deshka are doing great and still two weeks to count them. Of couse I want maximum returns in river, but I think netters should be able to fish as well. Hind site should make us all a bit more humble.

    Bill Booth

  2. #2

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    Thank you for this post. Let us all endeavor to do less fingerpointing and work together to deal with habitat and predation issues in the valley streams

  3. #3
    Member c6 batmobile's Avatar
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    Netters and private anglers had a good silver year. Strong numbers were very nice to see. Now if the kings could get back on track...
    Makin fur fins and feathers fly.

  4. #4

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    Not only did they not net them all but tons of sivers made it back to valley rivers. Look at the weir counts, by far the strongest return in several years. Suprised others on here did not use hind site to take back some of the things they said about netters trying to make a living this summer.

  5. #5

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    Well, let us hope that these returns have at least opened some closed minds.

  6. #6
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    At the risk of sticking my nose where it doesn't belong.......

    Somewhere in this discussion, someone should tip their hat to ADF&G and the BoF. We often throw rocks at them when things go bad, but we don't throw enough roses when things go well. Like now.

    ADF&G appears to have correctly estimated the run-size, and BoF made their allocation decision so everyone is able to partake of the abundance of coho. Well done by all, especially the much maligned fish managers at ADF&G. Thank you.

    (Even though I'm a thousand miles away from the Mat-Su).

  7. #7

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    all I will say on the topic is weird to not have fish for a few years in the valley and then all of the sudden we have them and we think its great this year because there is a lot of them. but now the water is a minimum of 4 times faster and stronger in many streams and I am wondering myself how much current it takes to destroy the spawn beds? does any one have access to info on that kind of situation? I realy think it could be a determining factor but how much and if it is it just adds to cruddy runs again and the huge amount of fish was mute! I know there isn't nothing we can do about the weather, oh wait our government came out about weather machines that they supposedly can prove can change weather!!! I like that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by troutslayer View Post
    all I will say on the topic is weird to not have fish for a few years in the valley and then all of the sudden we have them and we think its great this year because there is a lot of them. but now the water is a minimum of 4 times faster and stronger in many streams and I am wondering myself how much current it takes to destroy the spawn beds? does any one have access to info on that kind of situation? I realy think it could be a determining factor but how much and if it is it just adds to cruddy runs again and the huge amount of fish was mute! I know there isn't nothing we can do about the weather, oh wait our government came out about weather machines that they supposedly can prove can change weather!!! I like that one.
    Where did you find the info about streams being a minimum 4 times faster?

  9. #9

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    maybe faster is not the rite word but just close or right I dunno. the little su went from less then 400 cfs a few days ago to over 2000cfs last night/this morning. info came from usgs, fish head app and many others as I realy think usgs sucks. but you take a look at it compared to 3 days ago you can even see it! I must admit river speed may not be 4 times faster but there is more then 4 times the water. and probly 20 times stronger.

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutslayer View Post
    maybe faster is not the rite word but just close or right I dunno. the little su went from less then 400 cfs a few days ago to over 2000cfs last night/this morning. info came from usgs, fish head app and many others as I realy think usgs sucks. but you take a look at it compared to 3 days ago you can even see it! I must admit river speed may not be 4 times faster but there is more then 4 times the water. and probly 20 times stronger.
    The parks highway streams (and most other Mat Su valley streams) blow out at least once a year pretty much every year during the rainy season. If this had an adverse effect on the salmon, I suspect all the salmon runs would have died out many, many, many years ago. Certainly there is speculation that devestating flooding events that scour the river beds wipe out that particular year's fertilized eggs.

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    Agree with everyone that it is great to see strong(er) returns to the valley. It goes to show how robust Alaska fisheries are and, in good years, the fisheries' ability to support a lot of different user groups. And hats off to ADF&G who work hard to satisfy nearly impossible demands from the various user groups.

    With that said, it is easy to get complacent and forget about the structural problems facing the Valley fisheries, particularly silvers. First, there is no organized voice for sportfishermen; until that happens, sportfishing interests will always be at peril. The Valley needs something like KRSA .... Second, I think a key problem is the inability of ADF&G to accurately - during the season - gauge the strength of the return of silvers. Remember last season? The commercial guys had, I believe, he 2nd highest catch on record. Only later was it clear that they caught most of the fish, and that the return was in the tank, leading to the shutdown of most streams. These problem remains, and I would hope we now have time to find a rational approach for management that we will ensure the runs do not crater in the low return years.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKGrouse View Post
    Agree with everyone that it is great to see strong(er) returns to the valley. It goes to show how robust Alaska fisheries are and, in good years, the fisheries' ability to support a lot of different user groups. And hats off to ADF&G who work hard to satisfy nearly impossible demands from the various user groups.

    With that said, it is easy to get complacent and forget about the structural problems facing the Valley fisheries, particularly silvers. First, there is no organized voice for sportfishermen; until that happens, sportfishing interests will always be at peril. The Valley needs something like KRSA .... Second, I think a key problem is the inability of ADF&G to accurately - during the season - gauge the strength of the return of silvers. Remember last season? The commercial guys had, I believe, he 2nd highest catch on record. Only later was it clear that they caught most of the fish, and that the return was in the tank, leading to the shutdown of most streams. These problem remains, and I would hope we now have time to find a rational approach for management that we will ensure the runs do not crater in the low return years.
    You must get your information from this wonderful krsa of which you tout. They excel at dispensing false, misleading and divisive information. From the adfg website, last years cook inlet commercial harvest was 103,000. 45% lower than recent 10 year averages.
    The commercial harvest this year is 178.650.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKGrouse View Post
    The Valley needs something like KRSA .... .

    If it wasn't for the fact I think you're serious, I'd nominate this as Joke of the Month.....
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKGrouse View Post
    ...The Valley needs something like KRSA ...
    What a big mistake that would be...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    If it wasn't for the fact I think you're serious, I'd nominate this as Joke of the Month.....
    Yes what a joke...
    "Grin and Bear It"

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    I think what is needed is more fish up river. How we get to that point is any one's guess. But fish don't come back if there isn't enough fish to spawn in the first place. As far as the Kenai goes i think that is a good example of what not to do.

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    Great to hear about good coho returns this year. Now valley guys and gals don't forget to go kill some pike and save some of the future cohos. Remember juvenile cohos like slow water, which is precisely what pike like as well.

    Don't forget that coho have evolved to return in the fall months, which is generally the rainy season here in AK. A little high water wont bother them at all, it is actually what they want. Flooding like 2012 may have negative impacts, but so far this year the water isn't near that bad.

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    Silver runs were super high this year, and without looking at the last 4 years, this was just a darn good run. All turned out well, but I think the Fish and Game were being careless in the way they managed the resources. After 4 bad years, they had no need to be as liberal with the fish as they were.

    What I am afraid of now, after having a good year this year, we will be careless again next year, and probably we won't have as good of a run anyways, and all the fish will be scooped up.

    Just my thoughts...

  18. #18

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    I am confused. Everyone seems happy the Little Su had a great Coho run. Seems to me the average run over the last 16 years is about 16000 fish. This year is at about 13000. Why celebrate?

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    Yes you are, but not as bad as bad as DJ210. DJ210 what do you mean by scooped up. I get that 210 is half of 420 but let's keep it real
    Quote Originally Posted by MTguy View Post
    I am confused. Everyone seems happy the Little Su had a great Coho run. Seems to me the average run over the last 16 years is about 16000 fish. This year is at about 13000. Why celebrate?

  20. #20
    Member c6 batmobile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTguy View Post
    I am confused. Everyone seems happy the Little Su had a great Coho run. Seems to me the average run over the last 16 years is about 16000 fish. This year is at about 13000. Why celebrate?
    Its better than being in the toilet which there have been several years of not meeting or barely meeting escapement and EO's for shutdowns. It stayed open and a good amount of fish passed the weir. I would say that given the trend of the last several years even if the numbers werent off the chart that there is reason to be happy.
    Makin fur fins and feathers fly.

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