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Thread: 22 LR Ammo no shortage in Canada

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    Default 22 LR Ammo no shortage in Canada

    Just visited in Winnipeg and stopped into Cabelas and the shelves were full of all brands of 22 LR ammo. Anything from boxes of 50 to tubs of 1450 rounds. Some at $19.95 per brick. So what's the problem in the US? Only thing is in Canada you have to have a PAL (some kind of gun owner license) card to buy it. Think I'll look into what it takes to get this card. But if its readily available across the border why not here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halibut Chaser View Post
    Just visited in Winnipeg and stopped into Cabelas and the shelves were full of all brands of 22 LR ammo. Anything from boxes of 50 to tubs of 1450 rounds. Some at $19.95 per brick. So what's the problem in the US? Only thing is in Canada you have to have a PAL (some kind of gun owner license) card to buy it. Think I'll look into what it takes to get this card. But if its readily available across the border why not here?
    MUST BE a conspiracy
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdubbin View Post
    MUST BE a conspiracy
    It is. It's a conspiracy by gun owners to shoot themselves in the collective foot. I think we should call it the conspiracy of supply and demand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halibut Chaser View Post
    Just visited in Winnipeg and stopped into Cabelas and the shelves were full of all brands of 22 LR ammo. Anything from boxes of 50 to tubs of 1450 rounds. Some at $19.95 per brick......
    I wonder if there are "hazmat" regs tripling costs and lowering availability in Yukon Territory?

    .....Only thing is in Canada you have to have a PAL (some kind of gun owner license) card to buy it. Think I'll look into what it takes to get this card. But if its readily available across the border why not here?.....
    Hmmmmm...............Maybe buying a bunch in Whitehorse and driving it back would beat the EPA and VF Grace's stranglehold on Alaskans?..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    It is. It's a conspiracy by gun owners to shoot themselves in the collective foot. I think we should call it the conspiracy of supply and demand.
    This has been the root cause from the beginning, and continues to be based on my perusal of local shops yesterday...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    ......It's a conspiracy by gun owners to shoot themselves in the collective foot. I think we should call it the conspiracy of supply and demand.
    Well, the incredible costs and lack of availability of firearms paint certainly mirrors that of ammunition. Both are difficult to get here in Alaska due to the EPA hasmat shipping regs. And those who get it here will not sell it to you. They call themselves "applicators". They will only apply the stuff.
    The cost to paint a Remington 870 shotgun, already dissassembled and cleaned?: $180. I can get a surplus 870 riot gun from an FFL dealer friend (who obtained a dozen of them from, of all places, the University of California at Irvine) for just over $200 (not including shipping).

    I submit that the "law of supply and demand", with regard to both firearms paint and ammo, is primarily and chronically a result of supply problems created by the EPA and their unnecessary regulations, as well as the economic wolves who have no problem manipulating that Soviet style approach to government to their economic advantage (like the "applicators" and VF Grace), and the availability and price of ammo in Canada supports that view.

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    The EPA is not required by law to consider the economic consequences of its regulations. That is what needs to be changed, bottom line.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    .22LR ammo is defined as Hazardous Material per the authority of the Secretary of Transportation, and transportation of Hazardous Material is regulated by the Department of Transportation, not the EPA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    .22LR ammo is defined as Hazardous Material per the authority of the Secretary of Transportation, and transportation of Hazardous Material is regulated by the Department of Transportation, not the EPA.
    You are correct. I mistakenly cited the EPA. The revision of hazmat regulations that affected both ammo and paint shipments by sea to Alaska originated with the Department of Transportation.

    I apologize for my mistake.

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    The problem is we live in Alaska and have to pay higher shipping and labor costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Money Pit View Post
    The problem is we live in Alaska and have to pay higher shipping and labor costs.
    It's not because we're in Alaska. (Well, that may contribute). Folks in the Lower 48 are seeing the same things we're seeing up here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KLK View Post
    The EPA is not required by law to consider the economic consequences of its regulations. That is what needs to be changed, bottom line.
    If we allow that, then you might as well as toss safety out the window. After a decade or more in commercial aviation, it's my professional opinion that, if "economic costs" were allowed to play into policy decisions regarding transportation, it would be pretty risky to fly anywhere.

    N, we need a watchdog that doesn't care about the bottom line. (I'm not saying the federal gov't is the best watchdog, but we need one.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    If we allow that, then you might as well as toss safety out the window. After a decade or more in commercial aviation, it's my professional opinion that, if "economic costs" were allowed to play into policy decisions regarding transportation, it would be pretty risky to fly anywhere.

    N, we need a watchdog that doesn't care about the bottom line. (I'm not saying the federal gov't is the best watchdog, but we need one.)
    Don't start bringing common sense into this conversation!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    If we allow that, then you might as well as toss safety out the window. After a decade or more in commercial aviation, it's my professional opinion that, if "economic costs" were allowed to play into policy decisions regarding transportation, it would be pretty risky to fly anywhere.

    N, we need a watchdog that doesn't care about the bottom line. (I'm not saying the federal gov't is the best watchdog, but we need one.)
    Hazmat fees are a function of extra manpower required to do paperwork, (plus a healthy mark-up) not safety. Specifically talking ammo here, have you ever heard of an accident caused by the carrying of hazmat (un packaged ammunition)?

    Btw, economic concerns are already a big part of aviation safety laws, just look at the difference between 121 pax and cargo crew rest FAR's.
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    It should be glaringly obvious by now that the real reason for the ammo shortage in Alaska and the U.S. is because Canada has been hoarding it all !!
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    It's not because we're in Alaska. (Well, that may contribute). Folks in the Lower 48 are seeing the same things we're seeing up here.
    True enough. The whole nation is in the same boat, but there is no conspiracy by gun owners, as you stated earlier.

    It is simply a normal reaction to the last election and government attempts, and successes at restricting firearms.

    If you wanna blame yourself, that's fine with me, but government conspiracies do exist, such as "Fast and Furious".

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    It should be glaringly obvious by now that the real reason for the ammo shortage in Alaska and the U.S. is because Canada has been hoarding it all !!
    Blame Canada!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    True enough. The whole nation is in the same boat, but there is no conspiracy by gun owners, as you stated earlier.

    It is simply a normal reaction to the last election and government attempts, and successes at restricting firearms.

    If you wanna blame yourself, that's fine with me, but government conspiracies do exist, such as "Fast and Furious".

    SOTN
    Well, my "gun owner conspiracy" remark was somewhat tongue in cheek, but we are doing it to ourselves. The invisible hand of the market cares not what the reason is. The bottom line is this: when demand goes up, prices go up. Plain and simple.

    If we would just take a step back from the brink...although, now that we have proven that we'll pay abusive prices at the gun store, I expect producers to simply roll back production to maintain the current pricing level. So, in a sense, we have self imposed a future where ammo is hard to get and expensive, regardless of the administration in power. It's kind of like gas prices. I don't care what the incoming administration say, whoever they may be, they won't be able to control the market.

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    If it's all about safety why can you carry 50lbs of ammo in checked baggage on Alaska Airlines? I haven't weighed any .22lr lately, but that's got to be a lot of .22lr-or most anything else for that matter.
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    Default usps could ship us our ammo if they could possibly ever change

    Quote Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
    Hazmat fees are a function of extra manpower required to do paperwork, (plus a healthy mark-up) not safety. Specifically talking ammo here, have you ever heard of an accident caused by the carrying of hazmat (un packaged ammunition)?
    If usps were to make a little adjustment to themselves and create a special type of shipping class that will ship loaded and primed ammo, maybe they could stop hemorrhaging all the US citizen's money that they're doing now. They've become more and more non-essential due to technology, which means the government needn't provide much of what they used to re:mail too much longer, so they should seriously consider allowing ammo shipments between Alaska and the lower48, or if that's too silly then downward they continue to go (while continuing to lose/waste our money steadily).

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