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Thread: Catch sharing plan

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    Default Catch sharing plan

    Sounds like a done deal, who are the winners and losers? So the normal guy who does a charter once a year to try to help feed his family is the loser, but the trophy hunters and guides who cater to them won't be affected? So after you catch one halibut can you pay for a second? Keep catching and releasing until you get a large one and then decide to pay for it? CSP sounds like a real can of worms to me.

  2. #2

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    Its a Crock of **** for sure!
    Piscor Ergo Sum

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redleader View Post
    Sounds like a done deal, who are the winners and losers? So the normal guy who does a charter once a year to try to help feed his family is the loser, but the trophy hunters and guides who cater to them won't be affected? So after you catch one halibut can you pay for a second? Keep catching and releasing until you get a large one and then decide to pay for it? CSP sounds like a real can of worms to me.
    Have you read it?

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    Under the csp, captain and crew will not be allowed to keep their daily limit any longer, this alone will reduce overall numbers taken in 3a. Gaf transfers will be available to Qualified charter permit holders. Looks like a paperwork nightmare and still lots of unanswered questions, so when can someone decide to purchase a gaf? when they are reeling in the fish? Before they take their charter? While they are out there? Is catch and release legal after retaining your limit of one fish? Could you then decide to retain an additional one if the charter has gaf permits. Do they not realize or take into account that the csp will increase catch and release mortality rates? What about the increased pressure on larger fish if anglers are allowed to keep fishing and then decide to keep a fish if they catch a large one? How will this program help increase average halibut sizes? I believe it will do the opposite.

  5. #5

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    I'm only in favor of the GAF if it consists of a pound for pound transfer. Right now, I hear it's going to be an "average", which imo, is a scam. If I were a comm fish IFQ holder, I'd be freaking out about that. In other words, they want to use a (for example) 14lb average for GAF fish. So, a long range charter can keep a 40lb average, while only leasing a 14lb of GAF. That's a downright theft of the resource.

    Paperwork nightmare? Yep.. If you want to have a leg up on the competition and use GAF fish, you better be ready to jump though hoops, measure all halibut, etc. The way I see it, if you want to advertize a 2 fish limit, when other charters only can offer 1, you better be willing to measure each fish, and pay every dime for that fish. A 100lb fish is worth about $500. Pay up.

    If I read correctly, the GAF will now factor in mortality to the charters TAK. The charters who "sort" really need to clean up their act. Hopefully this will spur them to a more ethical style of fishing.

    To be honest with you, I'd be in favor of a proposal to change the law to address one of the problems you brought up. An angler catches a fish, and is "limited". Catch and release mortality is an issue. I think that they sure view that boat as 1 limit. In other words, he can keep fishing, and when he gets another keeper, it is kept. So a boat with 6 clients can catch 6 halibut. They should be required to keep all halibut over 37" or something similar. As soon as 6 halibut are pulled up over that size, they are done. Same should apply to king salmon, as they don't release well. If the angler wants to hand off the rod to the guy who hasn't hooked one yet, then more power to him. All regs right now should be geared toward conservation.

    The reality is that the halibut heyday are over. Sure, everyone wants to go out, pay the $600 for a pair to bring home a years worth of halibut. That's just not going to be the reality with what's going on with the biomass. My suggestion is to get your own boat then, if you want to eat halibut 2x a week. I just priced a 20' Hewescraft at 32k, without power. My heart just about stopped.

    edited to add:

    It's an absolute disgrace that capt/crew have been allowed to keep a limit of halibut, with what's going on. Remember our friend "mutt", who would give the halibut to his clients to make up for the lack of size. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

  6. #6

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    Can someone please clarify something for me. Does the CSP also impact the private fisherman who owns a boat and intends to head out to catch his two buts? At one point the CSP was discussed as impacting everyone from charters to private sport fisherman, but now it seems like it is only being discussed in terms of the charters. Was that fear mongering or has the CSP been altered from its original concept?

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    No change for private boats, charters only.

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    It's about time something be done. There is some serious carnage created by the charter boats. It does impact the resource.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullelkklr View Post
    It's about time something be done. There is some serious carnage created by the charter boats. It does impact the resource.
    Private, Charter and Comm fisheries all play a part. It's not just one.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    I'm not arguing that. What I don't like to really see is charter captains keeping their two fish every day - often times 2 times a day. Freezing them up and then using them for barter for other things. Really - who need to kill 2 halibut per day all season long just to have a couple fish sammies a couple times a week? I realize that not all or probably not even most do this, but there are several that do for sure....

  11. #11

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    Private boats eventually will need to share the burden of conservation too. It's coming.

    You can argue that it's sucky that charter capts keep 2 hali a day.. but what about the retire guy who fishes every day from his own boat, who comes up from california... not to mention he hosts friends all summer long, and they catch 2 hali a day. What's the difference??

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    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    Private boats eventually will need to share the burden of conservation too. It's coming.

    You can argue that it's sucky that charter capts keep 2 hali a day.. but what about the retire guy who fishes every day from his own boat, who comes up from california... not to mention he hosts friends all summer long, and they catch 2 hali a day. What's the difference??
    I'm not familiar enough to have an opinion on the CSP. But seriously? Comparing dozens of charter crews who take two hali a day every day of the season to "a retiree from CA" that apparently lives on the water all summer and does the same? Is that a common occurrence or do you just know of one guy? Must cost him a fortune to ship 1000lbs of hali back to CA every year. If that is a common problem then I am definitely in support of a law banning retirees from CA from fishing in AK. Where do I sign the petition?

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    those californians...ruining it for everybody!!

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    Default Answer the Poster's Question

    The long and the short of the CSP is it is a complicated plan for a problem that really does not exist in southcentral Alaska.
    The charter fleet has been below their allocation, in fact harvesting about what the CSP allocation is for several years.

    So there is not really a purpose or need for a new plan if the old plan and the abundance of halibut has already regulated the charter client harvest.

    As someone who is involved in the management process, I voted against the current CSP because the allocation was inadequate. The inadequate allocation is going to mean that this never goes away and some of you computer based experts really ought to get involved in the process. When the allocation "discussion" has taking place at the North Pacific Fishery Management Council, Advisory Panel I was the only one fighting for the charter allocation during the AP meeting about this issue. That put me squarely against about 30 commercial longliners and it was a fight I could never win alone. So complaining now about something you all could have had a hand in really fighting for last year, seems like complaining about your health after smoking cigarettes since 1995......

    with that said, one more time.... I will explain to the origional poster the answer to his reasonable question. He did not ask if you liked it - he asked what to expect as a fisherman and client. This is going to be very important in the future if we wish to retain clients in this plan.

    First and foremost, you should understand that the CSP does not mean, without question, that there will be a one fish bag limit in area 3A any time soon. In fact, I would be confident to say that if the CSP gets passed, there will not be a one fish bag limit in South Central Alaska. There are other tools to restrict harvest that most charter operators would favor over bag limit reduction. Right now, there are three charter operators ( yes I am one of them) tasked with the lovely job of deciding how the 3A charter fleet will stay within its allocation. They have been doing this for several years and most people, don't pay close enough attention to how their harvest is managed to even know that.

    The options they have in times of low abundance to restrict their sectors harvest are things like an annual limit, limiting effort to one trip per day, a two fish limit with one of the two fish a specific size ( one fish any size and on fish under 32") or day of the week closures or the dreaded one fish bag limit.
    The problem with a one fish bag limit, as we have seen in Southeast Alaska is that the private boat harvest has grown exponentially as a result of the lowering of the bag limit and in South Central Alaska that will be even more evident. This will result in no conservation of the resource, and only a loss of business to the charter fleet. The State is well aware of this outcome and has committed significant resources, right now, to make sure that there will be tools in the tool box to restrict harvest without lower to one fish unless abundance drops so low, all other options fail to control harvest.

    There is much more to this convoluted and restrictive plan. For those of us who are planning to surviving this thing, it is important to remember that the charter industry can choose the measures they want to restrict their harvest and that is the only saving grace of the CSP.

    One more item to consider about all of this - I got that great job and get to spend 5 weeks a year - think about it - five weeks I could seeing my family or working..., working on this and dozens of other issues relating to managing Alaska fisheries...All for.....Nothing. I do not get paid or compensated in any way for doing this. So you arm chair fish managers... there is plenty of room for someone else who is will to commit to that much time away from home and another four weeks of reading and research to prepare. All you have to do it put your name in the hopper this fall. you can even respond to posts like this at 4:29 in the morning before you 67th consecutive fishing charter....

  15. #15

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    Ak Capt, Well said and thanks for the explanation in layman's terms. I for one appreciate your time and sacrifices trying to help manage the fisheries.

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    I would love to see one fish limit for the charter fleet. The wife and I recently spent two days in Homer getting our eight fish for the winter and was amazed at all the half day charter boats running out to the chicken holes. These weren't the little six pack boats, but the big Deltas and Coastal Marine boats. I saw at least half a dozen and three all running together. Being conservative at 10 persons on each boat X 6 boats = 60 people X 2 fish each is 120 fish X two trips a day = 240 fish a day every day. I'm sure there are many more charters doing the same thing. Fishing is not what it use to be in Homer the last few years due to these type of operations, and it's only going to get worse. It' all about money....not the resource.

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    Thanks for the explanation AK Capt. and kudos for your efforts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunya View Post
    I would love to see one fish limit for the charter fleet. The wife and I recently spent two days in Homer getting our eight fish for the winter and was amazed at all the half day charter boats running out to the chicken holes. These weren't the little six pack boats, but the big Deltas and Coastal Marine boats. I saw at least half a dozen and three all running together. Being conservative at 10 persons on each boat X 6 boats = 60 people X 2 fish each is 120 fish X two trips a day = 240 fish a day every day. I'm sure there are many more charters doing the same thing. Fishing is not what it use to be in Homer the last few years due to these type of operations, and it's only going to get worse. It' all about money....not the resource.
    I would double that number...They carry 20+ anglers and then add for the catch and release mortality of ping pong paddles.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunya View Post
    I would love to see one fish limit for the charter fleet. The wife and I recently spent two days in Homer getting our eight fish for the winter and was amazed at all the half day charter boats running out to the chicken holes. These weren't the little six pack boats, but the big Deltas and Coastal Marine boats. I saw at least half a dozen and three all running together. Being conservative at 10 persons on each boat X 6 boats = 60 people X 2 fish each is 120 fish X two trips a day = 240 fish a day every day. I'm sure there are many more charters doing the same thing. Fishing is not what it use to be in Homer the last few years due to these type of operations, and it's only going to get worse. It' all about money....not the resource.
    The guys targeting the breeders are the ones you need to worry about. The ocean is full of the size halibut that they harvest. Let them have at it. Most u32 fish too. The breeders are disappearing at an alarming rate.

  20. #20

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    It's a good plan. Nobody is totally happy with it, which probably means it's a good compromise. It can't be custom-made just for 3A, it has to accomodate all the fisheries, over many years, not just a few. Don't want to pay for an extra fish, then don't. But both commercial businesses (charters and longliners) need to be able to plan for the future, and this plan does that. It seems to me that charter guides keeping fish too (share them with the clients for an extra tip!) should be the first thing to go when there's pressure on the resource.

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