Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Lower Kenai August bait closure.

  1. #1

    Angry Lower Kenai August bait closure.

    Last year, August started out with a bait closure on the lower Kenai river to supposedly conserve Kings from being killed in the silver fishery. This closure had nothing to do with science. Fish and game was pressured hard by the set netters to do this as we all know that they were closed last year. The kings showed late and the bait restriction was lifted. Last years closure was nothing more than a pissing contest between the set netters ,and KRSA and the guides.
    Fast forward to this year and we are at the same point. The department is using bad science and last years precedence, to justify this years decision. So who gets caught between this pissing match? You guessed it, Joe Fisherman. The commercial fishery has harvested about 2500 kings so far. The in-river harvest ( of which a large percentage was from the in-river commercial fishery) was about 1500. The department of f&g knew the king numbers were bad but allowed in-river harvest and additional beach fishing for way to long, basing their decisions on the premise that the kings were late like last year. Most of the local, private fisherman laid off the kings this year. We stayed away due to conservation concerns and just for the fact that king fishing has been so poor lately. How many kings does fish and game think they are saving with this closure? The only people catching kings in August are the back trollers and those who anchor in known king holes. Most of the " incidental" king fishing in August, is being done by a select few black sheep guides. All that had to be done was eliminate back trolling the first two weeks and 90 percent of the problem would be taken care of. Instead, all of the private anglers who have waited for the relaxed silver fishery have taken it in the shorts for another two weeks.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,039

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by akcarv View Post
    Last year, August started out with a bait closure on the lower Kenai river to supposedly conserve Kings from being killed in the silver fishery. This closure had nothing to do with science. Fish and game was pressured hard by the set netters to do this as we all know that they were closed last year. The kings showed late and the bait restriction was lifted. Last years closure was nothing more than a pissing contest between the set netters ,and KRSA and the guides.
    Fast forward to this year and we are at the same point. The department is using bad science and last years precedence, to justify this years decision. So who gets caught between this pissing match? You guessed it, Joe Fisherman. The commercial fishery has harvested about 2500 kings so far. The in-river harvest ( of which a large percentage was from the in-river commercial fishery) was about 1500. The department of f&g knew the king numbers were bad but allowed in-river harvest and additional beach fishing for way to long, basing their decisions on the premise that the kings were late like last year. Most of the local, private fisherman laid off the kings this year. We stayed away due to conservation concerns and just for the fact that king fishing has been so poor lately. How many kings does fish and game think they are saving with this closure? The only people catching kings in August are the back trollers and those who anchor in known king holes. Most of the " incidental" king fishing in August, is being done by a select few black sheep guides. All that had to be done was eliminate back trolling the first two weeks and 90 percent of the problem would be taken care of. Instead, all of the private anglers who have waited for the relaxed silver fishery have taken it in the shorts for another two weeks.
    +1.

    All I'll add is that I believe bait can be used above the Soldotna Bridge...which makes the decision even more ridiculous.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, Washington
    Posts
    1,210

    Default

    Perhaps the Kenai River is different but here on the Columbia River, alot more coho are caught on hardware than on bait. Alot more. In fact, many of us don't use bait for coho at all. I use spinners and jigs almost exclusively for coho. The latest rage for catching coho is twitching a purple and black 1/2 oz jig. I've seen some guys catch their daily limit of six (6) adult hatchery coho in a hour, just on 1/2 oz jigs. I've never known anyone to catch that many coho on eggs or any other bait. So instead of being overly concerned with the 'no bait' regs, try twitching a jig wherever you see coho rolling, jumping, and schooling. You just might get your daily limit of two coho faster than you can believe. And you probably won't get any Chinook doing this either.

  4. #4
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Red face Coho mortality study . . .

    Mortality of coho salmon caught and released using sport tackle in the
    Little Susitna River, Alaska



    Doug Vincent-Lang, Marianna Alexandersdottira and Doug McBride
    Alaska Department of Fish and Game, Sport Fish Division, 333 Raspberry
    Road, Anchorage, AL 99518, USA

    Accepted 21 May 1992

    Abstract

    Coho salmon (Oncorhynchus kisutch) were caught with sport gear in the estuary of the Little Susitna River, southcentral Alaska. Fish were double marked and released. All coho salmon observed migrating through a weir above the estuary and a portion caught in a sport fishery below the weir were examined for marks. A second group of coho salmon were caught using similar
    sport gear above the estuary. These fish were handled and marked identically as the fish captured in the estuary, except that they were held in a holding pen at the weir with an equal number of coho salmon dip netted at the weir. Coho salmon which were caught and released in the estuary suffered a significantly higher rate of mortality (69%) than did either the coho salmon caught and held above the estuary (12%) or those which were dip netted and held at the weir (1%). Factors that could influence rates of hook-induced mortality were measured at the time of hooking. Hook location, hook removal and bleeding significantly affected the measured mortality rate.


    Correspondence address
    D. Vincent-Lang, Alaska Department of Fish and Game, Sport Fish Division,
    333 Raspberry Road, Anchorage, AL 99518, USA.

    (Emphasis added - Marcus)

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,530

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by akcarv View Post
    Last year, August started out with a bait closure on the lower Kenai river to supposedly conserve Kings from being killed in the silver fishery. This closure had nothing to do with science. Fish and game was pressured hard by the set netters to do this as we all know that they were closed last year. The kings showed late and the bait restriction was lifted. Last years closure was nothing more than a pissing contest between the set netters ,and KRSA and the guides.
    Fast forward to this year and we are at the same point. The department is using bad science and last years precedence, to justify this years decision. So who gets caught between this pissing match? You guessed it, Joe Fisherman. The commercial fishery has harvested about 2500 kings so far. The in-river harvest ( of which a large percentage was from the in-river commercial fishery) was about 1500. The department of f&g knew the king numbers were bad but allowed in-river harvest and additional beach fishing for way to long, basing their decisions on the premise that the kings were late like last year. Most of the local, private fisherman laid off the kings this year. We stayed away due to conservation concerns and just for the fact that king fishing has been so poor lately. How many kings does fish and game think they are saving with this closure? The only people catching kings in August are the back trollers and those who anchor in known king holes. Most of the " incidental" king fishing in August, is being done by a select few black sheep guides. All that had to be done was eliminate back trolling the first two weeks and 90 percent of the problem would be taken care of. Instead, all of the private anglers who have waited for the relaxed silver fishery have taken it in the shorts for another two weeks.
    I agree that restricting back trolling was a better way to handle this.

    Relative to the comment on chinook ADF&G still is indicating it will meet the MSY goal.

    On the commercial fishery the question is how many sockeye are allowed to go over the upper end of the goals to meet the minimum MSY goal for chinook? You cannot have a discussion of management actions in UCI without having both stocks production curves included in the debate. So I would ask you akcarv that question. What sockeye escapements are the upper end for you and what are the minimum chinook goals to be met?

  6. #6

    Default

    Nerka, I really don't have a huge problem with the fish caught in the commercial fishery, just that the numbers don't add up to justify a bait closure in August. How many fish will this really save? A dozen maybe? I and many of my friends fish coho a lot in August, and unless you are targeting kings, this is a non- issue. One day sooner with the in- river closure would have been enough to make up for this emergency order. This is a feel good measure that makes no biological sense and is making a short fishing season much shorter. The Mighty Kenai is turning into a two week glorified snag fishery for reds. That is not why I moved here almost thirty years ago. This emergency order affects the local, non- guided anglers the most and we are tired of it. I would love to hear from a local bio with some numbers to justify this. All that would have had to happen is outlaw back trolling and buoy off four or five small known king holes in the lower river. Heck, I would do this for free. Give me eight or ten closed to fishing sign and I could eliminate 90 percent of the incidental king catch.

  7. #7

    Default

    Well, at least the founding member of the new Kenai King Conservation Alliance will be able to 'silver' fish using bait from his dock

    I also thought that a restriction of fishing methods and areas would have been more effective.

    I don't know how much pressure ADFG received from setnetters on this issue, but they didn't receive any from me. I think it's a little disingenuous to blame them for this EO. ADFG painted themselves into a corner on this one. They closed the river because "every king counted". The inriver closure for the last 4 days of the season saved VERY few kings - less than 40 if one believes a C&R mortality of less than 10%. C&R catches were averaging around 100 a day, and likely would have been less on Sunday and Monday due to guide/powerboat restrictions. If the King counts necessitated closing the river and saving these 40 fish to make escapement, which in turn hamstrung ADFG's ability to effectively manage the Sockeye runs to prevent overescapement (through a mandatory setnet closure), how then could they ignore incidental King catch on the river during Silver season?

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,530

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by akcarv View Post
    Nerka, I really don't have a huge problem with the fish caught in the commercial fishery, just that the numbers don't add up to justify a bait closure in August. How many fish will this really save? A dozen maybe? I and many of my friends fish coho a lot in August, and unless you are targeting kings, this is a non- issue. One day sooner with the in- river closure would have been enough to make up for this emergency order. This is a feel good measure that makes no biological sense and is making a short fishing season much shorter. The Mighty Kenai is turning into a two week glorified snag fishery for reds. That is not why I moved here almost thirty years ago. This emergency order affects the local, non- guided anglers the most and we are tired of it. I would love to hear from a local bio with some numbers to justify this. All that would have had to happen is outlaw back trolling and buoy off four or five small known king holes in the lower river. Heck, I would do this for free. Give me eight or ten closed to fishing sign and I could eliminate 90 percent of the incidental king catch.
    We are on the same page akcarv. I thought the closure was silly relative to the number of chinook saved - maybe a dozen -ADF&G say 20. So you are right - biologically this is a feel good measure. In my opinion the closure was to close the option of using the commercial fishery. That put them in a logic bind. Save 20 fish or less in the sport fishery and then kill them in the coho fishery - does not make sense. So they had to do something to be consistent with every fish counts. Then no bait when back trolling would be more effective which as you point out hits Joe Fisherman. So we are in total agreement.

  9. #9
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Smile A suggestion . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by akcarv View Post
    . . the numbers don't add up to justify a bait closure in August. . . This is a feel good measure that makes no biological sense . . I would love to hear from a local bio with some numbers to justify this. . .

    akcarv,


    Don't know whether you saw this, excerpted from a post in another thread:


    . . The folks at ADF&G who deal with fishery management issues on the UCI know what they are doing is critically important, high profile, and relevant to the social and economic fabric of the KP and the State of Alaska. They do not operate in a sleepy backwater. They are in the thick of it. They are up to their ears in important stuff, controversial issues, and difficult choices. But their decisions make a real difference to the lives of the people of the KP and the State. . .

    . . we should not feel sorry for them. We should support them. That does not mean we must agree with them on every issue. However, we should understand the context in which they have to make decisions, and to support their efforts to balance the many competing issues on the Kenai River.(emphasis added-Marcus)

    That to me says it all . . the guys at ADF&G can't win for losing . . whatever decision they make is bound to offend someone, bound to spawn speculation and accusations of why who did what. Seriously, have you thought about calling the Soldotna office of ADF&G and asking for an explanation? Of, if you live in the area, stopping in for a face-to-face chat? Their phone number is 262-9368.


    These guys have a tough row to hoe this time of year . . as the post above says, we should support them even when we don't agree with them.


    Give them a call . .


    Best,

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kenai
    Posts
    233

    Default

    I feel your pain akcarv. So if the logic here is that every king counts, why is the middle river, which for the first two weeks of August, is typically a sockeye (flossing) and catch and release trout fishery, being opened to bait with multiple hooks? To make it easier to gut hook trout that have to be let go? No wonder F&G takes so much heat and has lost so much credibility from the general public. Sometimes their decisions make no sense. Nerka, can you explain the thinking behind not protecting main stem spawning kings in the middle river? I don't get it.
    Last edited by gotfish?; 07-31-2013 at 17:46. Reason: spelling

  11. #11
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Aberdeen WA
    Posts
    4,516

    Default

    Agreed, no bait should be no bait.... RIVERWIDE!
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
    http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg
    The KeenEye MD

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,530

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gotfish? View Post
    I feel your pain akcarv. So if the logic here is that every king counts, why is the middle river, which for the first two weeks of August, is typically a sockeye (flossing) and catch and release trout fishery, being opened to bait with multiple hooks? To make it easier to gut hook trout that have to be let go? No wonder F&G takes so much heat and has lost so much credibility from the general public. Sometimes their decisions make no sense. Nerka, can you explain the thinking behind not protecting main stem spawning kings in the middle river? I don't get it.
    I cannot explain this one given the level of concern over chinook salmon during July. Akcarv had it correct. Make no sense from a biological viewpoint given the earlier actions in July. Maybe the thinking is most of the coho fishery is downstream and little effort will be in the middle river because coho have not made it there yet. Only thing I can think of. Not a good rationale in my mind. Maybe Aktally can answer it.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •