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Thread: I feel sorry for ADF&G thread

  1. #1
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    Default I feel sorry for ADF&G thread

    It appears some want to follow the Supreme Court rule that Corporations and Organizations are people. So following the rule of the land a number of posters have indicated they feel sorry for ADF&G. I am not sure how that works since ADF&G is made up of hundreds of people and the organization does not have a brain per se that responds to emotion but for the sake of discussion lets say it does or at least some individuals in ADF&G can take comfort in this.

    Any one can post why they feel sorry for ADF&G without any comment back. So the rule is simple -- just post what you feel sorry about and no response from anyone's post and rule 2 do not repeat it in other threads. Some ADF&G employees read this so it will save tax payer money by allowing them to read all of this in one place. I am on some peoples ignore list so someone will have to hit reply so others can see this.

    So I will start.

    I feel sorry for the local staff of ADF&G who have had their area management authority diluted by politics of Juneau.

    I feel sorry for ADF&G for the political pressure certain individuals get from political hacks that threaten their jobs - especially at the Director level.

    I feel sorry for ADF&G that budgets are cut or reduced due to inflation and thus programs and well trained personnel are not maintained or retained.

    I feel sorry for ADF&G because it (not sure what gender to use here so will go with it) is forced somewhat by the politics to close its door on open and transparent discussion.

    I feel sorry for ADF&G who have a terrible mixed stock fishery to manage in UCI and have had their flexibility reduced by a Board of Fisheries made up of non-technical individuals making highly technical decisions.

    I feel sorry for ADF&G that budgets do not allow a mentor and/or training programs for staff.

    I feel sorry for ADF&G Commissioner who gets ADF&G budget threatened for not making a call - the Commissioner is faced with the good for the many at the cost of the few numerous times a year.

    I guess I will stop here. So have at it. Maybe this list will help explain why some people feel one way and others a different way. It also will help ADF&G understand that frustration or approval of decisions are not personal. They are the result of the structural and functional limitations on ADF&G. That some decisions are made for some of the above reasons and those are the issues to discuss.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    .....Any one can post why they feel sorry for ADF&G without any comment back. So the rule is simple -- just post what you feel sorry about and no response from anyone's post and rule 2 do not repeat it in other threads......
    I'll pass, thanks. This isn't a conversation, discussion, debate, or source of information. It appears to be some sort of sarcastic spoof.

    ....I am on some peoples ignore list so someone will have to hit reply so others can see this.....


    Huh. Imagine that? And you suggest for others to hit the reply button (of course, without a reply, as it would break your "rules"), so (I can only imagine) to upset them?

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    I dont feel sorry for them, their job is cake and they make good money plus they get to chill all day

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    Cool no sorrow for the dept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    I feel sorry for ADF&G because it (not sure what gender to use here so will go with it) is forced somewhat by the politics to close its door on open and transparent discussion.
    The peoples of Alaska are so blessed in so very many ways. But, one thing I do feel a bit sorry about is that these same peoples are subject to managment of their wild resources via political and personal agendas instead of real science and nunbers - with decisions made on the basis of non-scientific rationale.

    Similar to the issue you mentioned Nerka, except I do not feel sorry for F&G one bit. After merely all the nonsense that they've been caught doing is enough to lose confidence in them. And a host of other documented happenings form a plethora of reasons why we as the people need to grab our broom and dustpans and go to the dept and clean house.

    oops, looks like I'm off topic. This is the sorrow for FG thread. Sorry, got carried away
    Last edited by FamilyMan; 07-30-2013 at 14:12. Reason: wrong topic for this thread; sorry

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    I feel sorry for the commercial managers in Cook Inlet, past and present, who have had to manage for more than one fish stock at a time. It is apparently a near impossible task. It would be so much easier to just ignore and over fish small stocks while fishing hardest on abundant stocks.

    I feel sorry for regional managers who have to sit in an office while other staff gets to traipse up and down rivers counting salmon, both live and dead. I feel sorry for the traipsers who have their data scoffed at by the same office bound managers in public fora.

    I feel sorry for the regional managers who then have to make calls on fishing openings and closures based on data they have declared to be badly flawed and undependable, and defend these decisions on the grounds that they are using the finest, most up to date data available in making the decisions.

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    I feel sorry for the F&G bios who have to make recommendations based on old, little or no field data on species, i.e. brown bears on the Kenai.
    I may be slow, but I get where I'm going!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain View Post
    . . This . . appears to be some sort of sarcastic spoof. . .

    . . +1 . .


    The folks at ADF&G—especially here in the Soldotna office that catches the brunt of all the crap floating in Cook Inlet—have a tough and too often thankless job.


    Personally, I doubt I could do it . . day after day of criticism, abuse, second-guessing, armchair quarterbacking, accusations, and more. Though not all their decisions meet everyone's agenda, ADF&G deserves our thanks.

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    Nerka wrote the following, and asked others to provide their perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    I feel sorry for the local staff of ADF&G who have had their area management authority diluted by politics of Juneau.

    I feel sorry for ADF&G for the political pressure certain individuals get from political hacks that threaten their jobs - especially at the Director level.

    I feel sorry for ADF&G that budgets are cut or reduced due to inflation and thus programs and well trained personnel are not maintained or retained.

    I feel sorry for ADF&G because it (not sure what gender to use here so will go with it) is forced somewhat by the politics to close its door on open and transparent discussion.

    I feel sorry for ADF&G who have a terrible mixed stock fishery to manage in UCI and have had their flexibility reduced by a Board of Fisheries made up of non-technical individuals making highly technical decisions.

    I feel sorry for ADF&G that budgets do not allow a mentor and/or training programs for staff.

    I feel sorry for ADF&G Commissioner who gets ADF&G budget threatened for not making a call - the Commissioner is faced with the good for the many at the cost of the few numerous times a year.

    I guess I will stop here. So have at it. Maybe this list will help explain why some people feel one way and others a different way. It also will help ADF&G understand that frustration or approval of decisions are not personal. They are the result of the structural and functional limitations on ADF&G. That some decisions are made for some of the above reasons and those are the issues to discuss.

    Fair enough. Here's my perspective.

    I don't feel sorry for any of them. For any reason. Here's why: This list of issues and concerns is a fact of life in State Fish and Wildlife depts all over this country. Perhaps not to the same extent and not on every issue. But every State has it's fishery management challenges. Here in the PNW, we have the Columbia River and Puget Sound. Other places have their issues too. The concerns are the same in the PNW here as they are in the Great Land. So the folks at ADF&G are not alone.

    But there is another reason. The list of concerns is a reflection of the importance of their work. The folks at ADF&G who deal with fishery management issues on the UCI know what they are doing is critically important, high profile, and relevant to the social and economic fabric of the KP and the State of Alaska. They do not operate in a sleepy backwater. They are in the thick of it. They are up to their ears in important stuff, controversial issues, and difficult choices. But their decisions make a real difference to the lives of the people of the KP and the State. As a fishery biologist, there is no better place to be. They know that they don't always get "their way". They know that sometimes they get vetoed by the Gov, or the Director, or the BoF, or some politician. They know they don't win every battle. But it's the battle that is important, and they win more than they lose. But not everytime. There are some folks who can't handle the presssure cooker that is UCI fish management, but they usually move to other positions within the organization. The remaining folks are the folks who relish the challenge. For awhile. And then they get burned out..... But for the time they are in those positions, they recognize and appreciate the importance of what they are doing. (My sense is that Nerka was once one of them. But since I don't know him/her, I won't pretend I do.)


    So we should not feel sorry for them. We should support them. That does not mean we must agree with them on every issue. However, we should understand the context in which they have to make decisions, and to support their efforts to balance the many competing issues on the Kenai River.

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    Thumbs up One of the best posts ever . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Cohoangler View Post
    . . This list of issues and concerns is a fact of life in State Fish and Wildlife depts all over this country . . the folks at ADF&G are not alone.

    . . The list of concerns is a reflection of the importance of their work. The folks at ADF&G who deal with fishery management issues on the UCI know what they are doing is critically important, high profile, and relevant to the social and economic fabric of the KP and the State of Alaska. They do not operate in a sleepy backwater. They are in the thick of it. They are up to their ears in important stuff, controversial issues, and difficult choices. . . They know that they don't always get "their way". They know that sometimes they get vetoed by the Gov, or the Director, or the BoF, or some politician. They know they don't win every battle. But it's the battle that is important, and they win more than they lose. . .

    So we should not feel sorry for them. We should support them. That does not mean we must agree with them on every issue. However, we should understand the context in which they have to make decisions, and to support their efforts to balance the many competing issues on the Kenai River.

    (emphasis added-Marcus)

    Thank you, thank you . . how true, how true . . would rep you 100 points for that if I could . .


    Check your PM box . . sent you some information . .

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    Default that description sounds familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Personally, I doubt I could do it . . day after day of criticism, abuse, second-guessing, armchair quarterbacking, accusations, and more. Though not all their decisions meet everyone's agenda, ...
    Their situation as you describe it here sounds like their challenges are not unlike the activity of posting on this forum.

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