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Thread: What horsepower/what brand new or used

  1. #1
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    Default What horsepower/what brand new or used

    Okay. So, ya'll know I have this Grumman sport boat I'm trying to get ready for hunting season. The engine I have for it is a 1969 Evinrude 2 stroke 4 hp. I can't get the engine to start/run. I've worked on it for a month and I've spent about $250-ish in parts so far.

    I'm completely frustrated and fed up with my failure on this engine, and I'm ready to give up and just say f-it-all and buy another engine.

    Craiglsit/AKlist has some new 2 strokes in that size range running from 500-800 (IF they're available still and IF they even run.) 'm very partial to the 2 stroke magneto ignition design and the OMC brand. On the other hand, I can go to AK Mining and diving and plop down $1430 and get a new Evinrude 4 stroke. ORRRR, I called a marine dealer in Seattle who can sell me a 4hp or 6hp Yamaha for $1112 and $1332 respectively plus not more than $130 shipping (based on a recent shipping cost to Anchorage for a 40 hp E tec).

    So I'm pretty torn on this. On the one hand, I love that little engine, love the design, it gave me many years of rugged dependability, but what ever is wrong with it seems to be out of my realm. I'm emotionally attached to it because it was a gift from my dad. I'm pretty sure it would still be a reliable engine if it could be brought back to life, but at what price? The only place in town that will touch it is expensive ($115 hr) AAAAND, they can't even begin to work on it until well after I need to use it. I can have a new engine, i hand, next week.

    On the other hand, I'll have just another ho hum foreign made outboard with advanced (read that less reliable) technologies that is not really what I want but it will do the job. (BTW: I just learned that the Evinrude 4 strokes are made by Tohatsu-I was dismayed to hear this.)

    what to do, what to do. "wringing of hands and the gnashing of teeth"

  2. #2
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    I'd go grab this up ASAP:

    http://anchorage.craigslist.org/boa/3957626944.html

    These twin cylinder zuks are torque monsters. I hauled a spike/fork moose with a 2000 DT6 6 hp. They use very thick shear pins.

  3. #3

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    Sorry to hear you're having trouble with the Evinrude 4hp. Those were/are very good motors. The 4 is a more modern version of the old OMC 3hp which was made from the early 50s on up to 68. I've been working on little OMCs for 40 years and there's just not that much to them.
    If they have compression, gas mixture and spark at the proper time they have GOT to run. 30 dollars worth of hand tools, a harmonic balance puller and a cheap ohm meter are all you really need to work on em'.

    It was your dads; if nothing else, buy another motor and keep the 4 around to tinker with. A good place to start is to buy or borrow a compression gauge and see what the compression is. Unequal compression on the cylinders or very low compression means you've really got problems.
    BUT, if the compression on both cylinders is close to equal and up past 80 lbs or so it means the crankcase is good. (Having equal compression on each cylinder is more important than the actual poundage.) Everything else is pretty cheap and easy to fix.
    Here's a good web site that you can go to and people will help you diagnoise the problem. Good folks to talk to.
    http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-evi...outboards-24/?

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    Suzuki? Really? Without your recommendation, I would never have even consider one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    Sorry to hear you're having trouble with the Evinrude 4hp. Those were/are very good motors. The 4 is a more modern version of the old OMC 3hp which was made from the early 50s on up to 68. I've been working on little OMCs for 40 years and there's just not that much to them.
    If they have compression, gas mixture and spark at the proper time they have GOT to run. 30 dollars worth of hand tools, a harmonic balance puller and a cheap ohm meter are all you really need to work on em'.

    It was your dads; if nothing else, buy another motor and keep the 4 around to tinker with. A good place to start is to buy or borrow a compression gauge and see what the compression is. Unequal compression on the cylinders or very low compression means you've really got problems.
    BUT, if the compression on both cylinders is close to equal and up past 80 lbs or so it means the crankcase is good. (Having equal compression on each cylinder is more important than the actual poundage.) Everything else is pretty cheap and easy to fix.
    Here's a good web site that you can go to and people will help you diagnoise the problem. Good folks to talk to.
    http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-evi...outboards-24/?
    You and I have the same asessment of those motors. I've been a fan of them my whole life.

    This one has 40 psi compression in each cylinder. I figured it the rings would work their way back in if/when I got it running again and the compression might come up a bit.

  6. #6

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    I ran a grumman Sport boat for years with a Evinrude 8 HP then I bought a 8 HP Yamaha both 2 strokes light weight and just the right amount of power for the Sport Boat IMHO

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    Are the Yamahas THAT good? There was a rumor floating around in the late 80 early 90s that a Yamaha 2 stroke was essentially a knock off, almost carbon copy, of an OMC, but I've never owned, used, or worked on one to know.

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    FL2AK, As Zack said those engines are very easy to work on and there is not really much that can go or be wrong, in your case with only 40 lbs of compression that may be and most likely is your problem. If it was me, I would change the head gasket before I did anything else (they are pretty cheap for that engine) then check the compression again. There is a good chance the gasket is blown and leaking between the two cylinders. When/if you do change it use a straight edge and check the head to make sure it is flat, if it is not, get out some sandpaper and a flat surface, then use a figure 8 motion to flatten the head. Another site to check is aomci.org under the "Ask a Member Section". A lot of the guys over there live to help people get another old motor running again. You should be able to get that gasket at any OMC/BRP dealer, if not you can get it online, I personally use marineengine.com a lot (there stuff ships out of Washington ST) and they are quick. I am also assuming you have checked the coils(if original they are almost certainly bad), points, etc and you are getting good fire. Let us know how things work out.

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    Moderator bkmail's Avatar
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    Bought a Tohatsu 6 HP last year and love the crap out of it. Great little work horse. It replaced my 9.9 Johnson from the 80's.
    It was priced right and had a reputation that couldn't be beat. it was also the cheapest out of all the outboards in it's class. I picked it up at Maritas as they were priced right in the same ballpark as anything I could get on-line.
    Tohatsu also makes the Nissan brand motors.
    BK

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    Thanks, Stacker. The head gasket is the last thing I haven't changed, and I have one in the garage. I've already installed 2 new coils, 2 new condensers (capacitors), 2 new sets of points, 2 new spark plugs, fuel pump, and water pump impeller. On a side note, after taking a break and ranting here for a few hours, I took another run at it last night and got the recoil starter back together. Makes a funny noise, but it works. I'll replace the fuel bulb/line assembly and the head gasket today and put it in the barrel this evening.

    As far as the flatness of the head, my Dad planed that head once on a machine the marina used for that purpose (which was really not much more than a belt sander if I recall), and I doubt that engine has 10 hours on it since then. Still easy to check though. I've never heard of someone doing it by hand.

    I can take another few days to work on this, but by Friday, it either has to run or I have to replace it.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    Are the Yamahas THAT good? There was a rumor floating around in the late 80 early 90s that a Yamaha 2 stroke was essentially a knock off, almost carbon copy, of an OMC, but I've never owned, used, or worked on one to know.
    Ya, 80s Yamaha's are/were that good. The Yamaha, OMC mix doesn't sound right BUT, small 80s Mariners were just rebadged Yamahas.

    IF you do take the head off the 4hp, look for scoring in the cylinders (broken rings). IF you can get it running, put a good dose of SEAFOAM through it. That will blow the old carbon out of the rings and bring up compression.

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    40 psi in both cylinders has nothing to do with the crank case. what the problem is when you have spark, and fuel but engine won't turn over....is that the head gasket is cracked between the two cylinders so compression is easily distributed between the two.

    I just found this problem on an old inline 6 landcruiser. The head gasket was cooked between the two cylinders the whole way down the gasket. 50 psi in every cylinder.

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    Well, I took another run at it again today and failed again. I finished up the carb reinstall put the coils all back together again bla bla bla. Bouht a new fuel line and bulb, too. If my dad were alionve and here, I could probably do htis, but without him, I guess I just can't. I give up.

    I bought a brand new Yamaha 4 hp from a dealer in Seattle today. It'll be on tomorrow night's boat and I can pick it up at the Lynden terminal on Monday. This is not at all what I wanted for an outboard or what I wanted to do, but, as Clint Eastwood once said: "A man has to know his limitations" and I guess I just learned another of mine. I'm very disheartened, not only for not being able to do what I know I should have been able to do, but also this begs the question, what if this had happened on a river 50 miles from anywhere. How would I get back? I wouldn't.

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    Just curious, did you change the head gasket, if so what is your compression now. You may have a new motor (and the Yamaha is a nice motor) but don't give up on this one just yet. If we can get the compression up to 65 psi or so that little motor will run, might not idle as good as 80 psi but it will run. Have you tried squirting a little premix directly into the cylinders (do not use starting fluid it has no oil in it) to see if it will at least pop?

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    I didn't. And part of my problem is I have someone in the family, my girlfriend's family, saying do this don't do that and since a)it's important to not start an argument and b)I'm using his stuff, I feel obligated to agree with him. That person is insistent on "getting it to run" BEFORE pulling the head and "wasting" a $3 head gasket. (Nevermind that a) that might be the problem and b) I just dropped over a thousand dollars on a new engine.) This is the same person who was insistent that I change the starter spring to make it "easier" to start the engine BEFORE actually getting it to run, so I said f-it-all and bought a new engine. Problem solved. Family argument averted. Done.

    Besides, today's disaster was more centered around the fact that now, when I pull the starter, the throttle closes. I pulled the flywheel and ignition plate today and replaced the last remaining coil with a new one, then put it all back together. Now, when I set the throttle to wide open and pull the starter cord, the entire ignition plate rotates WAY further than it used to and the throttle closes. I've also discovered that the fitting on the fuel tank is screwed up, which is the least of my troubles.

    Incidentally, don't be surprised if this new Yamaha finds its way to Alaska list next year. I'm already hoping (praying) that somehow, someone, can bring my antique Evinrude back to life, and I hope to keep working on it over the winter, but I don't believe I can get it running, no matter how much money I pour into it.

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    I hear ya brother, gotta keep the family happy. Ref to the throttle closing when you pull the starter, sounds like you might have a coil setting out too far and it is hitting the flywheel when you try to start it. Try turning the flywheel by hand and see if you can feel any resistance/dragging, if you do you most likely need to adjust your coil(s).

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    Moderator bkmail's Avatar
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    J Kimberly on Arctic in Anch might be able to assist you either over the phone or drop it off and pay the man. This is what they do for a living, Johnson and Evinrude mechanics with a great reputation.
    BK

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    Quote Originally Posted by bkmail View Post
    Bought a Tohatsu 6 HP last year and love the crap out of it. Great little work horse. It replaced my 9.9 Johnson from the 80's.
    It was priced right and had a reputation that couldn't be beat. it was also the cheapest out of all the outboards in it's class. I picked it up at Maritas as they were priced right in the same ballpark as anything I could get on-line.
    Tohatsu also makes the Nissan brand motors.
    BK
    And Mercury and Evinrude. (up to 30 hp for Merc and 15 for Evinrude I think).

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    Quote Originally Posted by bkmail View Post
    J Kimberly on Arctic in Anch might be able to assist you either over the phone or drop it off and pay the man. This is what they do for a living, Johnson and Evinrude mechanics with a great reputation.
    BK
    They're the guys referenced in my first post. $115 an hour with a deposit (which, I understand the deposit issue with an engine this old, so it doesn't bother me) but they're so popular that they can't touch it for a while-a lot longer while that I can wait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger46 View Post
    And Mercury and Evinrude. (up to 30 hp for Merc and 15 for Evinrude I think).
    Correct. Basically everything 4 stroke. (The E newer Evinrude 15 "E-Tec" is a 2 stroke "oil injected" *rolls eyes* w/e and those and everything bigger are still made in Fon du Lac -I THINK.)

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