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Thread: 40 lb bow, broadheads choice

  1. #1
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    Default 40 lb bow, broadheads choice

    Hi,

    I'm looking for a broadhead that will do the job n deer and Caribs, my boy is shooting a 40lb hoyt charger with a 25in draw so arrow speed is gonna be really slow.

    Max range is around 30 yds and I was thinking about trying the 75 -90gr muzzys to increase the speed and flatten trajectory a bit.

    appreciate your comments.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Use cut on contact for sure.. Can't go wrong with these Zwickey Eskimo.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Magnus Snuffers, Magnus 2 blade. As Amigo said " Cut on contact". NO Expendables for sure!!!!

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
    Cancer from Agent Orange - Aug. 25th 2012
    Cancer Survivor - Dec. 14th 2012

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    As Amigo said- the Zwickeys are great and were my favorite for hogs in Texas as they get great penetration. That said- it is hard to go wrong with a Muzzy- I have killed quite a few critters with them and never had one fail. They fly true and the point allows for bone splitting and great penetration. They are easier to tune than zwickeys- especially when he starts shooting a heavier/faster bow. 40 lbs is plenty at that range with proper placement.
    Hope y'all have some good luck! Looking forward to some pics...

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    I recommend going the other way with the weight. As short as the arrow is and the bow weight being light you need the k energy. Muzzy Phantoms did my boys great when they where in this range of equipment.

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    All depends on the arrow he will be shooting. I would try to stick with a 10ish percent FOC. I would stick with a muzzy type or other low profile head they tend to be more forgiving when shooting form get a little loose from hunting situations. Shot placement is key and don't over think it 40# is plenty.. Oh and practice with the broad heads prior to the season...

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    Definitely cut on contact, one model of BH that has served me well for smaller stuff is the game tracker "First Cut" in the 100 gr. It's a two blader that has stood up to plenty of abuse and flew great for me.

    Funny, a kid with a modern 25 inch. draw bow at 40 lbs is still probably over 200fps, That's what my bow shoots at 60 (old jennings) and I double lunged a moose with it (broadhead stickin out the first side, quartered shot). You will be in fine shape, and good luck to him and you.

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    So this is probably the most heated topic in archery... Lol. Both cut on contact and chisel point will serve your son well. As I said earlier the three blade muzzy type are by far easier to tune then most cut on contact especially those with two blades they tend to want to plane especially with form issues. Yes you will get greater penetration with a cut on contact but the wound channel will basically the size of the broadhead and typically especially if not a pass through the blood trail will be less or perhaps even seal around the arrow. . A chisel type pushes the skin ahead prior to cutting this creating a much larger wound channel and greater blood trail even if not a pass through. Lots of info out there on the subject but in the end the one that flies and tunes best on his bow is the best choice

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    I shoot g5 montecs with a 53lb pull and the only animal the arrow stopped in was the far shoulder blade of a 6+ foot griz. All others have been complete pass throughs.

  10. #10

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    Sorry bear, but I'll disagree to your blood trail statement!

    I've had blood trails that were tough to follow most were pretty easy and a few anyone could follow. I've shot the same 2 blade head for 23 years now. I've followed trails from mechanicals and multi blades and have seen the same results. There's a ton of factors that equate to a blood trail. And you bet your bowstring there have been a couple of times I wished I had another blade or two. But then you come back with reduced penetration, shoulda woulda coulda.....

    If you cant shoot a 2 blade at that speed, you've likely got tuning issues. Throwing a 3 blade, high angled head on, chisel point and than asking it to penetrate when its not flying straight to begin with is asking for trouble. Just my buck 50!

    All of said heads will work fine on said game. Given proper tuning has been achieved! I'd stay away from the uber light arrows. Though I'm not a huge proponent of uber heavy either. Look to the ladies for your answer, some of the names are doing exactly what you're asking and doing it well!

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    Member akjeff's Avatar
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    Caution on using light broadheads. 500 spine carbon arrows are approximately 7.5 grains per inch. At 25 inches that's roughly 187 gr., plus fletching and a nock, tipped with a 75-90 gr broadhead will be very close to the minimum 300 gr overall weight required. (Reference page 21 of current hunting regulations).

    My wife draws 45 lbs and uses 100 grain Slick Trick broadheads with good success. Her arrow are also 25 inches.

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    Ahh no worries Tradbow what fun would it be if we all agreed on everything,it would be a boring discussion,besides its not my opinion it also the opinion of multible friends and acquaintances that I shot with when I shot professionally. I also had these penetration/hole size discussions with at least a few manufactures at the trade show.. I do however agree that there are many factors that go into a blood trail so perhaps my statement was a little too bold.. I actually had to take a day to think about the OP's question because I was on the fence about which way I was going.. BOTH are great. My thoughts were simple, a boy with a 25 inch draw in a young hunter who perhaps will be over excited when it comes time to pull the shot off so he is likely going to be shaking all over the place,add to that he will be shooting lighter equpment. Having tested and tuned many broadheads through out my days in the buisness I have found that 2 blade broadheads are not only harder to tune they are more touchy when it comes to forgiveness from a poorly executed shot and with lighter equipment the chances for pass through are reduced.With that said I felt that a better choice in this situation would be the muzzy type.., Yes there are certain things that cant be denied...cut on contact penetrate better and muzzy type broadheads leave bigger holes.. I do think one thing we can never disagree on regarding either broadhead in the importance of tuning for proper arrow flight...

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    I knew something sounded familiar with the OP's descrip of his kid's set up.....cuz it's just like mine when I was a kid. When I was 12 I was pretty short, and drew about 40 pounds on an old jennings forked lightning (great bow for a kid back then). My FPS was maybe 170....maybe. I shot Easton 1816's, no release, and either lighter heads weren't available or dad didn't care, but I shot 125 grain three blade satellites. One shot wonders but my first several deer until I got taller/stronger were pass throughs or at least had the majority of the shaft sticking out the far side.

    I definitley hear you on the over excited kid shooting, my shots were either three foot off into a tree, or dead on....depending on how much time I had to amp myself up before the shot. The quick ones I actually hit something, give me two minutes to watch the animal work my way and I might as well have thrown my candy bars at it to get the same killing effect. The cool thing about archery and kids to me is that it's cheap to practice, doesn't usually take a trip to the range, and most importantly, it's really fun. So with enough time put in most kids develop really good form, and then we all degrade it with time

    So no matter the choice on heavy or super light with the arrow, your limit to 30 yards is a good one, pops had me held with a twenty yard pin and I practiced windages to 25 and beyond that it was just a kid peeing his pants with deer fever. The advantage of holding to these shorter ranges is that you can more easily use a 100 or 125 head that will carry that kinetic energy with it, without requiring the calculus of windage past 25 yards that comes with light draws.

    Either way, excited to hear of a new hunter to the bow world.

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    You may want to look at the Slick Trick Viperhead... it is a COC style BH that i have had awesome success with. I took a black bear with one this spring and it left a blood trail that Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder could have followed. they fly exceptionally well out of compounds even though they were designed for traditional equipment. I would give them a serious look

    http://www.slicktrick.net/

  15. #15

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    no joke on the tuning, I've shot the same bow for the last 7 or so years now and I still find myself tinkering with tuning. Its a never ending ball of wax atleast for trad guys.

    I remember when I arrived here 17 years ago, I met a guy early on. Mind you this was the days before bows were fast. Darton was starting to make some so was pse at the time but nothing was approaching todays standards and man they were LOUD! A fella had issues with broadheads. Something I see often, or did. As I've removed myself from the glamor of being around it all anymore. Its the same thing over and over and over again. This wont work. I remember someone telling me it was 'the bows fault' he wounded game. Anyways, this guy in particular was right about his heads. He tried shooting a multiple of different heads including my 2 bladers, I had some 3 blade 100 grain thunderheads I tinkered with for bears at the time I think I still have 2 new boxes of them somewhere. The one thing we noticed was he consistently shot low. Not much but 1-2" low at 30. At 20 it was pretty much a wash. That's AFTER we spent a week trying to get his setup back to par again. He was off in a lot of ways tuning wise. I had already made the convert to trad and he was shooting wheels so it took me a bit to get things right again, and this was long before the days of places like this lol. I do believe speed plays a roll into shooting a 2 blade solid head and its how 'finicky' it is to tuning, when was the last time you seen a 747 pulling mach 3! Given the setup, I wouldn't hesitate to put a solid 2 blade or cut on contact 3 blade like a montec in a heart beat! But with the low energy I would be concerned about bone busting tearing heads....and hitting bone in general. you and I can punch through a bou's shoulder, but could that kid do it with a 40lb bow and either head? scenario, moving animal, misjudged distance, overly excited kid (hell I'm still excited when I getm close lol), poor form and....

    My thought and maybe this is why I'd lean more to a different head than a muzzy, instead opting for the montecs, is planning for a bad shot as best you can knowing that someday it likely will pay off!

    You're definatly right about a young kid uber excited about a shot. No one knows how they're going to react. I remember having xmas break one year rattling dear in the late season having a monster buck come in along with a smaller 6. The 6 was close enough I think I could have thrown my arrow and got'm so I focused on him. Mind you the buck at 25 yards behind him in the clear was a hoss. I was 14 and didn't know better. I never did get that **** bow back to full draw (an old Jennings Forked Lightning, I think they had what a 50% letoff, its funny you mentioned that Catch it, it was my first bow, and I shot the same heads with it as I do now). It wouldn't be the first time a critter had me all boggered up over the years. (having xmas leave one year I was able to recoup my impotence in the draw portion and put one in a buck at 5 steps which brings us back to one of the blood trails anyone could easily follow, this is a paid advertisement for Viagra, the new bow lock)!

    I've pondered going to a coc 3 blade just for that extra blade off and on over the years. If the kid is going to be chasing bears I'd highly recommend it!!! That hair sucks up blood like the tundra!

    So that begs the next question....more penetration or a bigger hole? if you truly feel that you cant get good blood trails with a 2 (which I'll disagree with to my dying day lol). Given the setup, low poundage, low energy bow, would you opt for a potentially smaller wound channel (obviously head design comes into play here), or potentially a shallower depth of cut (again head design coming into play).

    Personally I prefer getting two holes and cutting as much as I can, but I'll opt for that exit wound every time over a bigger head. For deer/bou sized critters a bigger head is an option, easier animals to penetrate more energy put into cutting instead of sticking in the ground.

    I don't get too wrapped up in shot shows, or any of the glamor. There's a lot of great info and peep's there, with loads more experience than I have. And than there's been a ton of animals killed with a knapped rock too.

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    Tradbow I dont think we are to far off here and I am sure we would agree on more then we would disagree on.. I do want to make sure I am not misunderstood here.. I do believe 2 bladers leave great blood trails I used them on many a hunt with great success. Hell one of my fondest memories is sharpening my zwickeys waiting for the opening day and seeing what day break would bring.. The point I was trying to make was on a non pass through shots.. The entrance hole on a 2 blade COC is smaller then that of a chisel type blade like a muzzy.. I think all things being equil on the thin skinned critters we are talking about here with proper shot placement, I personally would always opt for a bigger hole.. If we change the game a bit and move up to bigger critters I would certainly go with a COC.. I still think in this situation with a compound like the charger and a young shooter the best broadhead is the one that wil tune the best and in my experience muzzy types have fit that bill but with that said if I shot an old bear head and it shot better they would be in my quiver..

    On a side note Im with you on the shows Trad,it was something we sorta had to do for various reasons.Overall the one thing I did like was the info you could get if you were willing to sitdown and ask questions. The other thing was that being a show not open to the public the manufactures(especially new broadhead companies) would stand in line to give you thier products in hopes you would buy them for your shop or what not.. I used to get to "play" with all kinds of broadheads and I have to admit it was pretty fun even knowing most of them were simply gimmicks.. One of the things I like about the forum is that its mainly hunters and hey I would rather hear about your 17 years here and what works for you and why then somebody pitching me a line.. OH and that knapping is some cool stuff,I have a few bow building friends( which I am sure you know) down on the Kenai that do it.. I ve seen some of knapped broadheads that would make a straight razor look dull...lol

  17. #17

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    My standard answer to anyone asking what broadhead is better "The broadhead that matches your field point weight and penetrates the deepest". Big holes are good but deeper holes are better. I think penetration becomes even more important for a lower poundage bow. I usually give this example: Take an arrow with your favorite cone or chisel pointed broadhead razor sharp from the box. Hold it head high and drop it straight down onto you boot. It will bounce off. I don't recommend it but if you are brave enough, take that same arrow with a 2 bladed razor sharp cut to point broadhead and do the same. Have a band-aid ready. 2 bladed razor sharp heads take less energy to penetrate. One other recommendation, lean towards a heavier arrow for better penetration rather than trying to flatten trajectory with a lighter arrow. Add another pin for longer ranges and let the heavier arrow do it's work.

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    See that's just it i don't think penetration is the end all solution to the woes of archery in the context we are discussing. I am sure I can get a razor sharp field point to penetrate extremely deep but what damage does it cause. There has to be balance.. I honestly don't have a standard answer as I think it all boils down to the equipment being used. Using you example with now push both through your foot the two blade leaves a nice clean cut that you can hold together with a bandaid. Now push the muzzy through. It will push the skin inprior to cuttin thus leaving a hole at least one and a half to two time the diameter of the broadhead. Which one is easier to stop the bleeding. The op's kids bow is 40 pounds which is plenty to put a huge hole in the critters mentioned here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch It View Post

    Either way, excited to hear of a new hunter to the bow world.
    Almost missed this....
    This is with out a doubt the greatest part of this thread.... Very well said Catch It...

  20. #20

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    without a doubt its the best part of the thread!

    NO foul taken bear..sorry been off of here for a spell.

    I know the muzzy can and will do a great job. For me its the marginal hits, bone in particular that leave me with a bad taste on the hole 3 bladed head (with said equipment). The trade off is marginal shots on soft tissue where I'd opt for the bigger blade....dam'd if you do, dam'd if you don't.

    I think the trade off is IF you can get that 3 blade through your foot, comparing a 3 blade hole to a 2 blade hole its obvious the 3rd blade is going to do more damage. I'd personally opt for the exit hole (2 holes) and know I can bust bone and still penetrate with said equipment in mind. Its the main reason I keep balking at shooting some wensel woodsmen's or the giant snuffers on anything but longbeards and even than I have yet to give them a whirl, sticking to the 2's. Its amazing if you hit the right place on a longbeard you wont get a pass through even with a 2!


    anyways....

    I'll stick to my 2 blades and a box of band aids .

    Next time I'm down I'd like to see that razor sharp field point with a 7/8" cutting diameter man that's a serious telephone pole or a heckuva of a extreme FOC! . You've been hanging out with Ed too much hehe.

    Btw, I know of a few knappers in the state, I gave up on it. Got tired of shards everywhere.....including in my hands! I had to draw the line somewhere! That crap is scary sharp!!! maybe someday I'll give it a try again when I'm bored and have nothing else to do, right now I'm getting beat up and there's no end in sight. I have a pile of osage slats in the living room, a few staves, and no time to finish anything fun.

    save your sinew!

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