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Thread: Kenai Kings close Sunday

  1. #1

    Default Kenai Kings close Sunday

    This is overdue, but the late run Kenai King fishery closes at midnight Saturday. A sad day but the right decision. This will end the set netters season, as well as put a hurt on the Kenai guides. Maybe we can work together this off season on the king situation , as there are no winners in our current situation.

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  3. #3
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    This action is pure political bull. First the season was catch and release already and the sport fish season ended on 31 July. So closing on the 28th saves maybe 1 fish if that in river. The real purpose here was to have the set net fishery not have the opportunity to harvest any sockeye if they come to the beach. A single period with a poor chinook return may be 100 chinook. So in both cases this is a meaningless closure but one that politically met some pressure today from KRSA. Why? Coho salmon. At this time of the season the guides and KRSA want coho salmon in the river and they want all of them. So using chinook as a rationale they have the chinook closure so there is no chance for the set netters to fish if sockeye come to the beach. The sockeye goals mean nothing to them.

    Lets get real here and see what is happening. If ADF&G keeps playing these types of political games they lose credibility and a resource agency must have that for decisions in other areas. It is a sad day for the State of Alaska when this happens.

    For those who want to defend ADF&G ask yourself if 100 fish and potentially giving up the sockeye goal for the Kenai River is a good trade off. No fishery manager I know would do this --- threats to budgets and positions in the political climate of UCI is driving this - maybe the lawsuit will get this on the record via discovery and deposition.

    The existing situation had the set net fishery closed but if a large rush of fish came to the beach the option was to fish. That decision is now gone or at least difficult to overturn.

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    Question Explain, please . . . ?

    Perhaps the accusation above—that ADF&G has succumbed to political pressure from KRSA—is true, I don't know. But maybe it isn't. How is one to know?


    Unless someone from ADF&G explains the reason behind their decision to close the chinook fishery, how can anyone state with certainty why the decision was made? In such an instance, doesn't the accusation amount to nothing more than an opinion and speculation?


    Again, I don't know, and I don't know how anyone can know unless ADF&G explains their decision. Has ADF&G released any statement/press release explaining their action? Am wondering at this point what is to be gained or what purpose served by opinionated accusations.


    Is anyone at ADF&G reading this? Explain, please . . .

  5. #5

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    It is more than opinionated accusations Marcus. I'm all for meeting the king goal, but Nerka has a point.

    UCI fisheries management has turned into a political chess game, and local managers have lost all control.

    I would love to hear an explanation as well. I don't feel it would be prudent to fish the setnets right now, but I also don't feel like it's wise management to tie ones hands.

    Perhaps Aktally/Commfish can enlighten us...

  6. #6
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    Marcus, there is no way ADF&G is going to come out and say this in public. You have to do a little homework and call someone in ADF&G who is willing to talk to you and not be afraid of punishment for speaking freely. They need to trust you and have a relationship with you. So asking a question on the forum of ADF&G is nothing more than reading the justification in the e.o.

    I may be the only one on this forum who has experienced this pressure on this issue first hand during a fishing season. It is real and has happens every year to some degree when coho start to show up. Do you really need to fish the set nets and catch coho is the mantra. Looking at the regulations you can see that the BOF has restricted the set nets in early August significantly to increase the coho in river return.

    On August 1st the in-river fishery will probably go back to bait fishing for coho. So chinook will be caught back trolling for coho. Happened last year and will this year if ADF&G does not issue an e.o. to prohibit bait in August. Otherwise the chinook will be caught and released into August under the guise of coho fishing and with multiple hooks. Want to bet if there is a no bait closure on August 1st??

    Finally, one does not need to ask ADF&G. Look at the data yourself. Does it make sense to go from catch and release to a complete sport fish closure with 4 days left in the season? Put the commercial sockeye fishery aside. What is saved by doing this? What impact does it have on the guide industry who may have clients booked for catch and release? We are talking about a handful of fish caught under catch and release with thousands already in the river and a counter that is probably under counting by ADF&G own admission. That just does not make biological or economic sense by any standard. It makes perfect political and allocation sense.

  7. #7

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    I have a question about under counting. How was the king fishing during the late run? If kings are being under counted wouldn't the catching be better than expected? I am not sure who to believe in this whole argument. One thing I do know... If I thought commercial guys were catching fish by the boat load I would buy a permit and take advantage of all that easy money they must be making. On the flip side if they were getting screwed at every turn a permit could be bought cheap.

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    Unhappy Tarred and feathered . . . ?

    IUCI fisheries management has turned into a political chess game, and local managers have lost all control.

    Given the various interest-groups involved, I fail to see, regardless of what decision they make, how ADF&G can escape the kind of accusation leveled above.


    If the nets are fished, PU and sports anglers cry foul; if the nets are restricted, the gill-net industry cries foul; if C&R is mandated, C&K anglers cry foul; if sockeye harvest is prosecuted, chinook anglers cry foul; if chinook are protected, etc., etc., etc.


    There will always be malcontents present in any interest group—comm-fish, sport-fish, chinook, coho, C&R, whatever—ready to cry "foul" and cite supposedly inside knowledge of why they're getting the shaft.


    To my mind anyway, all the whining, grousing, and accusing that goes on here is counterproductive and divisive. What we know is what ADF&G tells us, nothing more. If someone wants to accuse ADF&G of lying or duplicity, well, that's their opinion, nothing more. and should be presented as opinion, not fact, until irrefutable proof is offered in confirmation. Such concerns should properly be addressed to one's legislators, the Commissioner of ADF&G, and Governor Parnell.


    As it obtains at present, this forum too often degenerates into a collection of kangaroo courts, tar barrels, and bags of feathers.


    Attachment 72486


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post

    To my mind anyway, all the whining, grousing, and accusing that goes on here is counterproductive and divisive. What we know is what ADF&G tells us, nothing more. If someone wants to accuse ADF&G of lying or duplicity, well, that's their opinion, nothing more.


    It's plainly people's opinion, (just like you have yours,) which certainly comprises most of this entire forum. I don't see anybody else crying foul. If you don't like it change the channel, or quit trying to stifle what people should or should not say.....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Wink Thanks . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    It's plainly people's opinion, (just like you have yours,) which certainly comprises most of this entire forum. I don't see anybody else crying foul. If you don't like it change the channel, or quit trying to stifle what people should or should not say.....

    Goodness, my apology for not being clear.


    I wouldn't dream of "trying to stifle" what folks opine here . . .


    . . . though I do object to opinion being presented as fact.


    Thanks for the opportunity to explain . . .
    Attachment 72489

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    ......If ADF&G keeps playing these types of political games they lose credibility.....
    Was that a joke? Do you think there is much "credibility" regarding UCI salmon management at this point anymore? I'm not saying the ADFG staff has lost credibility. I'm saying that they, like most agencies caught in push-pull politics among numerous players, are caught in a whirlwind tide. I feel sorry for them.

    ......For those who want to defend ADF&G ask yourself if 100 fish and potentially giving up the sockeye goal for the Kenai River is a good trade off. No fishery manager I know would do this --- threats to budgets and positions in the political climate of UCI is driving this - maybe the lawsuit will get this on the record via discovery and deposition......
    And there is the ultimate and inevitable tragedy: resource management by the judicial branch. But that's where it will end up. Guaranteed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain View Post
    Was that a joke? Do you think there is much "credibility" regarding UCI salmon management at this point anymore? I'm not saying the ADFG staff has lost credibility. I'm saying that they, like most agencies caught in push-pull politics among numerous players, are caught in a whirlwind tide. I feel sorry for them. . .

    . . . . +1

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    Unfortunately for the Valley, we get screwed in this decision. Managers are fishing the Central District drift full on, and now with another "management tool" for Kenai and Kasilof reds closed to them, they will be motivated to give them all the fishing time and area possible under the plan and possibly outside the plan; the precedent is there. The commercial coho catch is already over 120,000 fish, many of which originated in Valley drainages. Overall the silver season in the valley is pretty poor so far; and there's little hope for it getting better if all available EO time is used in the drift fleet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wbooth View Post
    I have a question about under counting. How was the king fishing during the late run? If kings are being under counted wouldn't the catching be better than expected? I am not sure who to believe in this whole argument. One thing I do know... If I thought commercial guys were catching fish by the boat load I would buy a permit and take advantage of all that easy money they must be making. On the flip side if they were getting screwed at every turn a permit could be bought cheap.
    A setnet permit can be bought dirt cheap right now like 10,000 dollars or less. If you look up the values of all the commercial entry permits in AK, ESSN is probably near the bottom, if not at the bottom.

    Marcus -- while no one besides ADF&G upper division management knows perfectly what's behind a decision, what can't be denied was the recent EO issued for setnetters when the river went C&R of one 12hr. period a week, was entirely based on KRSA's proposal at the UCI task force meetings this winter, nothing in the management plan noted this EO.

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    Red face Questioning another man's motives . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by 33outdoorsman View Post
    Marcus -- while no one besides ADF&G upper division management knows perfectly what's behind a decision, what can't be denied was the recent EO issued for setnetters when the river went C&R of one 12hr. period a week, was entirely based on KRSA's proposal at the UCI task force meetings this winter, nothing in the management plan noted this EO.

    outdoorsman,


    That may well be the case, but, as you note, no one knows for sure except ADF&G upper division managers.


    My point is simply that while one may speculate and opine "why," no one knows for sure other than those who made the decision.


    Opinion and speculation should not be presented as fact and used to abuse and accuse another person's motives.


    Then at the balance let's be mute,
    We never can adjust it;
    What's done we partly may compute,
    But know not what's resisted.

    —Robert Burns

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    First, a forum is speculation and opinion and no one has stated differently from what I can tell. My post was based on my experience within the management teams over a number of years. Also it was based on calls and discussions with ADF&G staff. For the record the local staffs of both Divisions objected to this call. Also some regional staff objected. The Director of Sport Fish Division made the call.


    (edited)


    The real issue for the local sport fish staff is that on August 1st the river goes to bait for coho fishing. If every chinook is critical then those chinook caught and released in the bait fishery need to be protected. Also the gear goes to multiple hooks which increases mortality. So will ADF&G go to no bait and a hook restriction to protect the fish protected by the closure? Fair question on motive and rationale for the closure.
    Last edited by Michael Strahan; 07-28-2013 at 09:11.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by 33outdoorsman View Post
    A setnet permit can be bought dirt cheap right now like 10,000 dollars or less.......
    The state ought to buy all the east side set net permits up and reserve the east side for subsistence and personal use set netting. Maybe it would take pressure off the Kasilof and Kenai mouths, and also make room for the future.

  18. #18

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    So the Kenai River is closing to Kings tonight. Dunno if anyone heard that or not... I heard that's what this thread was supposed to be about. I also heard from a friend that a KRSA rep and Karl Johnstone were in ADFG yesterday shortly before the announcement. Funny coincidence...

    Well, I guess I'm done setnettng for the year. Maybe I'll get my 'silver gear' ready for August 1. Without those dirty setnets in the water, the King - I mean 'silver' fishing ought to be great! It sure was last year!

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    So the Kenai River is closing to Kings tonight. Dunno if anyone heard that or not... I heard that's what this thread was supposed to be about. I also heard from a friend that a KRSA rep and Karl Johnstone were in ADFG yesterday shortly before the announcement. Funny coincidence...

    Well, I guess I'm done setnettng for the year. Maybe I'll get my 'silver gear' ready for August 1. Without those dirty setnets in the water, the King - I mean 'silver' fishing ought to be great! It sure was last year!
    Smithtb- I don't know if Karl Johnstone is a "rep" for KRSA, but I do know that there was a BOF member visiting Soldotna ADFG on Thursday and Friday visiting many different projects and sites that deal with UCI salmon. I believe it was a new member named Reed. The day that the ADFG closed the king fishery on the Kenai on Friday he spent with commercial fisheries division, and visited commercial assessment sites and flew over the beaches and mouths of rivers. Do you think he influenced the commercial fisheries division of ADFG to close the Kenai kings? I'm just trying to understand your statement. Thanks.

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