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Thread: Question for the shooters

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    Default Question for the shooters

    So I have a really crappy rifle rest that is basically a v for the butt of the stock and a sand bag on the front. It seems that if the butt of the stock is not in there just right my groups open up. My question is if the sling stud gets held up during recoil can that affect accuracy or is the bullet already gone. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    My question is if the sling stud gets held up during recoil can that affect accuracy or is the bullet already gone. Thanks
    Sling swivel contact during recoil will effect accuracy negatively.
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    Get yourself a better rest. (Make one out of torn up jeans sewn into bags and filled with gravel, dirt, whatever.) Eliminate the variables in your shooting technique. You want to be a machine, stamping out the exact same product time after time, shot after shot.

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    The key to consistant accuracy is shooting the rifle from a consistant position and with a consistant hold. I've shot some tiny groups with fairly crude rests, but it is much easier and enjoyable with a good rest.

    An MTM rest for the forend and a sandbag or two under the butt works fairly well. Just make sure the forearm is resting at the some position and the same with the butt for each shot.
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    You can make sand bags out of the legs of old jeans filled with sand, rice or buckwheat and sewn closed on both ends. IF you fill them too full however they will be too hard and unyielding to the rifle stock, too soft and the rifle can cant or roll. They should be smooth and allow the rifle stock to slide rather than drag. Sling swivels on both ends of the rifle can cause cant or torque of the stock and increase group size. BUT at the end of the day when you get ready to practice, get off the bench and exercise shooting from offhand positions, prone across a pack or sitting using a pack frame; that is unless you intend to carry your shooting bench sheep hunting.
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    If you choose to make your bags out of rice, wheat, beans, etc. make sure you store them out of reach of rodents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    So I have a really crappy rifle rest that is basically a v for the butt of the stock and a sand bag on the front. It seems that if the butt of the stock is not in there just right my groups open up. My question is if the sling stud gets held up during recoil can that affect accuracy or is the bullet already gone. Thanks
    So lets see if i got this right... You owe several high end rifles with top dollar scopes and you can't afford a caldwell shooting bag???

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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    So lets see if i got this right... You owe several high end rifles with top dollar scopes and you can't afford a caldwell shooting bag???

    LOL I had the rifles before the kids ... Its not that I cant afford one it was just that the one I have always worked(ok and lazy).. I was just curious about the lug catching during recoil and effects on accuracy.. Do you like the bags or lead sled type rests?

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    Tearbear - I sew some and made some bags for a PD outfitter buddy of mine in Montana a while back - I filled them with FLAX seeds which made a nice feeling bag that was not so heavy - that fall he called to let me know that they had sprouted .......... don't let the bags get wet either

  10. #10

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    Bear: I've used a Hart pedestal rest for 40+ years and rabbit ears back bag.This was no genius move on my part...just what the bench rest crowd had universally adopted back in the late 60s and early 70s and continues to use today.Those dudes know how to shoot VERY small groups with incredible consistency.

    You will never see a sling stud on a bench gun for the reasons alluded to above...if it catches any resistance in recoil (almost guaranteed with hunting rifles), the odds are your groups will suffer.

    Almost as important as your front and back rests is the shooting platform.For optimum groups, you need a dead solid bench...at the right height...and a shooting stool that allows you to have minimal or no contact with the rifle.

    The whole topic of producing small groups is very complex.Average bench technique will triple the group size of most very accurate rifles.Even more so with big bore handguns.

    Lots more to talk about here...but most shooters, no matter how experienced, can come close to the top potential of their rifle(s) unless they know and apply really solid bench rest practices.

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    I use a bi-pod and a rear bag. My left arm is under me and my left hand on the rear bag to make slight adjustments. This is most likely how I will shoot in the field so this is how I practice.

    You might try getting a bag like this in a couple different sizes,

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/289...large-cylinder
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    I use a bi-pod and a rear bag. My left arm is under me and my left hand on the rear bag to make slight adjustments. This is most likely how I will shoot in the field so this is how I practice.

    You might try getting a bag like this in a couple different sizes,

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/289...large-cylinder

    Do you prefer sand bag type rests over the lead sled type for sighting in purposes..
    Thanks

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Do you prefer sand bag type rests over the lead sled type for sighting in purposes..
    Thanks
    Right now i am using old blue jeans legs sewed up with sand for bench and prone shooting. My smith has a few like the one I linked but a little larger, that are custom made. He fills them with wheat. I am not a fan of the lead sled. My philosophy is is if you BR shoot, then use BR set ups. If you field shoot, hunting, varmints, etc., then practice the way you will shoot in the field.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Do you prefer sand bag type rests over the lead sled type for sighting in purposes..
    Thanks
    I know I do, even my AR, the bi-pod comes off and I set it on a sand bag, front and back. Seems like a more natural or usefull way to shoot than off a sled, to me of course.

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    I use a traditional Harris bi-pod attached to the front swivel stud. I also use a rear bag filled with plastic beads. I prefer these beads because they don't absorb water and they are very light. Try to adjust your set up to be fairly level when shooting. This minimizes elevation changes during recoil.

    http://www.thewilderness.com/wildern...gs-individual/ I like the 5x4 medium size rear bag. Squeeze the bag with your support hand for elevation adjustments. Works for me, your results my vary...

    While hunting and presented with a shot I prefer to drop my back pack and use it for a rest while shooting prone.

    DSC01878.JPG 338 Lapua Mag.jpg

  16. #16

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    Marshall I noticed in your picture you posted at the range you did not have any hearing protection. It also looked like you were under a shed or roof of some kind. Your gun had a silencer of some kind on it. I am not used to shooting with a silencer and I am not trying to be critical just wanting some information. Can you shoot a gun under a roof without hearing protection or was the picture took just to show the rest setup you use. I have damaged my hearing several years ago by shooting a lot with no hearing protection. I hope this is not took the wrong way as I like to read your posts and value your answers to the questions that are posted. I use a bipod and rear bag almost identical to the one in your picture some of the time when I shoot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cast Iron View Post
    Marshall I noticed in your picture you posted at the range you did not have any hearing protection. It also looked like you were under a shed or roof of some kind. Your gun had a silencer of some kind on it. I am not used to shooting with a silencer and I am not trying to be critical just wanting some information. Can you shoot a gun under a roof without hearing protection or was the picture took just to show the rest setup you use. I have damaged my hearing several years ago by shooting a lot with no hearing protection. I hope this is not took the wrong way as I like to read your posts and value your answers to the questions that are posted. I use a bipod and rear bag almost identical to the one in your picture some of the time when I shoot.

    I worries friend, I had foam inserts deep in the ear canal. This rifle would ring my ears forever if I hadn't inserted protection and utilized the suppressor. My wife is a licensed hearing specialist and an owner of her own hearing clinic. She would kill me if I was shooting unprotected. http://www.goldcanyonhearing.com/ That day I was shooting with a friend, he was on a 6.5 Creedmoor, he's much better than I.

    The suppressor takes a lot off the shot both in noise levels and in recoil. The picture isn't the greatest as it was taken with a cell phone. It does show the support hand on the rear bag adjusting for elevation. That day I was shooting at a 8" steel plate placed 558 yards down range. No way I could be stable enough without the rear support.

    By the way, the suppressor is quite nice. I don't have scientific data on the noise level but it's about the same as a 22LR shot from a rifle, not to bad. Mine is an Elite Iron. It also takes a lot off the shot, much better than a brake in my opinion. I was fortunate that McMillan timed the threads to the barrel when they built the rifle. The change of impact is 3/4" high at 100 yards, hardly worth missing with scope adjustments. Arizona just passed a law last year that allows us to hunt with suppressors, I haven't done it yet.

    http://eliteiron.com/elite-iron-suppressors-page6b.html

  18. #18

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    Bear,

    I should add that whether you shoot off bags or bi-pod or whatever, you should understand what your rifle is doing. Sand bags are probably the most stable platform you can shoot off (except a BR rail), but whatever platform you use, you must exercise a certain amount of control. If you shoot your rifle on sand bag or bi-pod you need to load it as though you were leaning into it. This might take a little getting used to but it is necessary for good recoil management and consistency. You'll notice that BR shooters don't use bi-pods... that's because bi-pods are more challenging to shoot accurately and consistently from. Your chances of winning a BR shoot with a bi-pod is pretty much nil.

    This is a lot of words to say that a bi-pod is not the most accurate way to shoot a rifle, but if you use it properly,it is a very stable platform. you can find some good tutorials on youtube, search recoil management and bi-pod.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    If you shoot your rifle on sand bag or bi-pod you need to load it as though you were leaning into it.

    You'll notice that BR shooters don't use bi-pods.

    Your chances of winning a BR shoot with a bi-pod is pretty much nil.

    This is a lot of words to say that a bi-pod is not the most accurate way to shoot a rifle, but if you use it properly,it is a very stable platform.
    Selectively cut and pasted from MR. Very true comments, I agree.

    Bi-pods do much better with forward load. I generally always shoot the pictured rifle from prone. The bi-pod legs are always extended a notch or two and digging into the ground. I always put forward shoulder pressure into the rifle butt to load the bi-pod legs. This gives a good three point stable platform and reduces muzzle jump allowing the shooter to read the trace.

    Sand bags are nice but not always available when shooting away from the range. For that matter, sometimes bi-pods are to short when shooting prone in the woods too. I like shooting off of my back back from prone quite a bit, it's very stable.

    Bench rest guys have crazy contraptions and custom flat bottom stocks that slide on KY-Jelly, I've seen them smear this stuff on teh leather so teh rifle would slide.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgAmE-bpD1w

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    I use the two bag system for a while. Now I use a lead slead for load development and my actual hunting pack as a field rest at the range for practice from the field positions.

    I notice that I pack my pack a little bit differently when I "know" I am going to be using it as a rifle rest. But those are real options, using the bag I am going to be using as a rest there as my rest 'here' lets me know very clearly how close I have to get 'there'.

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