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Thread: Looking to proxy hunt for someone in unit 13 draw caribou

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    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    Default Looking to proxy hunt for someone in unit 13 draw caribou

    Hi, I'd like to proxy hunt a caribou in unit 13 draw hunt. If you aren't going to hunt your draw and you qualify for a proxy please PM me and we can make arraignments thru fish and game. I'm going to be there with a friend who was drawn so it would be nice to have two permits. Thanks Tom

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    Hi, I'd like to proxy hunt a caribou in unit 13 draw hunt. If you aren't going to hunt your draw and you qualify for a proxy please PM me and we can make arraignments thru fish and game. I'm going to be there with a friend who was drawn so it would be nice to have two permits. Thanks Tom
    I appologize up front for jumping on a soapbox, but I couldn't avoid this one. The purpose of proxy hunting is to allow someone else to harvest an animal FOR the elderly or disabled person, not to just shop around for someone who is not going to hunt and to fill the permit for themselves. If you are intending to harvest the animal and return most of, if not all the meat to the original permit owner, then more power to you. Otherwise, I personally consider this abuse of the proxy system. It may be technically legal, just not what the system was meant for.

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    Member PPR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    I appologize up front for jumping on a soapbox, but I couldn't avoid this one. The purpose of proxy hunting is to allow someone else to harvest an animal FOR the elderly or disabled person, not to just shop around for someone who is not going to hunt and to fill the permit for themselves. If you are intending to harvest the animal and return most of, if not all the meat to the original permit owner, then more power to you. Otherwise, I personally consider this abuse of the proxy system. It may be technically legal, just not what the system was meant for.
    Totally agree! Proxy is not meant for someone to just try and aquire a tag that they didn't draw.

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    Member .300wby's Avatar
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    Yeah! I got some time off in aug. Anyone got a Tok sheep permit they want to get rid of?

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    I appologize up front for jumping on a soapbox, but I couldn't avoid this one. The purpose of proxy hunting is to allow someone else to harvest an animal FOR the elderly or disabled person, not to just shop around for someone who is not going to hunt and to fill the permit for themselves. If you are intending to harvest the animal and return most of, if not all the meat to the original permit owner, then more power to you. Otherwise, I personally consider this abuse of the proxy system. It may be technically legal, just not what the system was meant for.
    Perhaps you are correct, but I think it fair to consider there are tag holders who qualify for proxy that need a hunter to utilize their tag and use this forum to find such a hunter.

    In spirit I agree with your senitment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    Hi, I'd like to proxy hunt a caribou in unit 13 draw hunt. If you aren't going to hunt your draw and you qualify for a proxy please PM me and we can make arraignments thru fish and game. I'm going to be there with a friend who was drawn so it would be nice to have two permits. Thanks Tom
    Better double check the regs. I think you need to have the permit (in question) in order to proxy hunt it for someone else.

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    To help out the forum cops...

    Disabled and elderly Alaskans: Proxy hunting provisions
    *Definition of “70-percent disabled” - a person who presents to ADF&G either written proof that the person receives at least 70-percent disability compensation from a government agency for a physical disability or an affidavit signed by a physician licensed to practice medicine in the state, stating that the person is at least 70-percent physically disabled.
    An Alaska resident (the beneficiary) may obtain an authorization allowing another Alaska resident (the proxy) to hunt moose, caribou, or deer for them if they are blind, 70-percent physically disabled* (defined above), or 65 years of age or older. A person may not be a proxy for more than one beneficiary at a time.
    Proxy hunting is allowed for most deer hunts, most caribou hunts, and some moose hunts, with the following restric- tions:
    Antler destruction:
    • consists of removing at least one antler from the skull plate or cutting the skull plate in half to destroy the trophy value.
    • is required for all species.
    • is required for each animal taken by the proxy hunter (both the proxy hunter’s animals and the beneficiary’s animals).
    • must occur at the kill site unless uncut ant- lers must be submitted to ADF&G for mea- suring.
    • will be completed after measuring by ADF&G.
    You may proxy hunt for moose:
    • in Tier II hunts
    • in bull hunts with no antler restrictions • in antlerless moose hunts
    You MAY NOT proxy hunt in these areas:
    • Unit 5A, Youth Hunt Management Area from Oct 15-Oct 31.
    • Unit 20E moose and Units 20B, 20D, 20E, 20F and 25C caribou registration hunts (RM865, RC860, and RC867).
    • Units 21B, 21C, 21D and 24 moose hunts if either the proxy hunter or the beneficiary holds a drawing permit for the Units 21B, 21C, 21D and 24 moose hunts.
    • Mulchatna herd caribou hunts before
    Nov. 1 in Units 9A, 9B, 9C within the Alagnak River drainage, 17B, 17C, 18, 19A, and 19B.
    Special restriction in Unit 13:
    • You may not be a proxy hunter more than once per season per species.
    Both beneficiary and proxy must have obtained licenses, regardless of age, and any necessary harvest tickets and/or per- mits, before applying for a Proxy Hunting Authorization at any ADF&G office or other issuing location.
    In addition, a written statement signed by an Alaska-licensed medical doctor stating the percentage of the physi- cal disability is required if the ben- eficiary only qualifies due to physical disability. Either party may obtain the proxy hunting authorization form to be completed and signed by both parties.
    Once validated, this authorization will allow the proxy to hunt for the ben- eficiary until the end of the regulatory year. As a proxy, you may hunt for the beneficiary and yourself at the same time, as long as the appropriate li- censes, harvest tickets and/or permits for both hunters are in your possession. The beneficiary may not hunt while the proxy is hunting for them.
    The beneficiary is responsible for all harvest and permit reporting, wheth- er or not the proxy is successful. The proxy is responsible for providing the beneficiary with the information neces- sary for the beneficiary to properly report. The Proxy Hunting Authorization may not be used in federal subsistence regis- tration hunts.
    Complete details of proxy hunting are available at ADF&G offices. See the top of page 4 for ADF&G area office phone numbers.
    Other disability provisions
    Those who are at least 70-percent physically disabled qualify for the spe- cial provisions outlined below:
    A person with physical disabilities may take big game from a boat in Units 1-5, and may take black bear from a boat in Unit 6D, if they obtain a disability permit. A disabled hunter permit holder may only shoot from a boat when the motor is turned completely off and when progress from the motor has ceased. Applications are available at the ADF&G office nearest the hunt area.
    A person with physical disabilities may shoot game from a motorized vehicle in portions of Units 7 and 15 within the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge. This person must require a wheelchair for mobility, obtain a permit from ADF&G and be in compliance with Kenai National Wildlife Refuge regu- lations. ADF&G may require that the permit holder be accompanied by an- other hunter with a valid hunting li- cense capable of assisting with the retrieval of game taken by the permit holder. For more information on acquiring a permit to hunt within the Kenai National Wild- life Refuge, contact the ADF&G office in Soldotna at (907) 262-9368.
    For further information on disability provisions, contact ADF&G by phone at (907) 465-4148 or by email at dfg. dwc.permits@alaska.gov
    To assure the efficient and timely completion of your proxy paperwork, please verify that your doctor’s letter or paperwork from the government clearly states 70% or greater PHYSICAL disability. See definition at top of page.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by .338WM View Post
    Perhaps you are correct, but I think it fair to consider there are tag holders who qualify for proxy that need a hunter to utilize their tag and use this forum to find such a hunter.

    In spirit I agree with your senitment.
    That's all true, and I see the value and wisdom of a proxy system for elderly or disabled folks to obtain wild game meat, but on a draw hunt? Why isn't the proxy system set up only for subsistence hunts which are available specifically for the acquisition of meat (which is what proxy hunting is supposed to be for)?

    Draw and registration hunts should be for sport hunters. Subsistence hunts are for meat hunters. Mixing the two opens legal questions, which is what opens federal opportunists for meddling in state affairs.

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    I don't know if this will answer your question or not. The reason for the proxy was the natives were taking animals and when question said it was for an elder. The natives were not tagging the animals and F&G had know way of knowing how many animals were being harvested. So they came up with the proxy. I was told the natives still don't fill out the tags and F&G are not happy with non-native taking advantage of the proxy.

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Hoo-boy....here we go!!!!!!

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    If within the legal constraints, I see nothing wrong with giving a shout out to our forum elders who may need help filling their freezer with healthy food. If you're going to be out their, might as well make it a good reason to help out a fellow elder-hunter. Very honorable offer algonquin........you're a good man.

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    Member Spookum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPR View Post
    Totally agree! Proxy is not meant for someone to just try and aquire a tag that they didn't draw.
    Come on guys. I would like to think that if you we're going to be hunting there any way you could help someone out. I'm going to be hunting there, in DC482. If someone in the fairbanks area has a caribou permit, and needs someone to proxy for them, I will also. The terms are you get all the meat back, and the hise too. I'll either help you cut and package it OR drop it at a processor of your choice. I intend to have a freezer with us to help chill down the meat if need be! You will only have to put up with two little people while we are butchering... Their "helpers"...

    Come on big bad hunters... My grandparents are in the lower 48 and I always take them meat... Lets give back to our community.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookum View Post
    ......Lets give back to our community.
    Among sport hunters world wide, it is common to leave some or even all of the meat to locals while the sport hunters takes the trophy back home. I think that's a good thing for horn/hide hunters to do. Africans like it, but Alaskans tend to be more varied. The folks who get the meat are happy to get it, but others will bad mouth the sport hunters as slobs who kill for trophies, even though their neighbors benefit.

    And if a sport hunter harvesting a trophy on a draw hunt wants to donate the meat, I think that is great as well.

    But applying for draw hunts with no intention to hunt, and to have a proxy hunter do so for them, might be an abuse of the purpose of draw hunts, especially when one can do so legitimately under general, registration, and subsistence hunts.

    Of course, many might disagree (that appears to be standard on this forum), but it has been Alaskan hunting politics that has delivered us to these many various hunt designations, not my opinions. If it's a sport hunt, there isn't enough game density or too much pressure to allow a general hunt, and it is decided to be a draw, it should be for sport hunters. This should especially be true if the same area for the same species (like this Unit 13 caribou scheme) already offers a more appropriate registration or subsistence hunt.

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    Member Gr is for Greg's Avatar
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    Hehehe, I actually clicked on this thread purely for entertainment value, judging from the title. It's all in the wording, man. If the OP had instead stated, "I'm going with a friend into the Unit 13 Draw area. If anyone drew that tag but can't make it due to disability, I would be happy to fill your tag by proxy. I'm going to be right there and will likely have the opportunity to get you your animal." I agree with many of the others that the OP is in poor taste. If it doesn't violate the letter of the law, it for sure violates the published intent, which ADF&G states as recognizing and encouraging the age-old Alaskan tradition of sharing among the community, especially to elders and those who have become disabled.

    As for comparing Alaska to other (often impoverished) areas of the world, where trophy hunters are welcome with open arms to kill trophies and leave meat? That is a flawed comparison to a state loaded with capable and eager hunters all vying for a drawing-hunt-regulated population of game animals. -Gr
    My signature is awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    Better double check the regs. I think you need to have the permit (in question) in order to proxy hunt it for someone else.
    I don't believe that is in the regs any more. That was a requirement in the past when it was under the tier II system just because of this kind of abuse. People were seeking out elderly people who could score more points and get the permits even if they had no intention of hunting. They made it so that a person would have to have qualified to get a permit themselves to be elegible to proxy for someone else.

  16. #16

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    As I stated in my post above, if the OP is intending to hunt FOR the permit holder with the intent to provide them with the meat (or at least a majority of it), then I fully support it. That is just not the feeling I got from how it was written.

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    Member skybust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    to help out the forum cops...

    Disabled and elderly alaskans: Proxy hunting provisions
    *definition of “70-percent disabled” - a person who presents to adf&g either written proof that the person receives at least 70-percent disability compensation from a government agency for a physical disability or an affidavit signed by a physician licensed to practice medicine in the state, stating that the person is at least 70-percent physically disabled.
    An alaska resident (the beneficiary) may obtain an authorization allowing another alaska resident (the proxy) to hunt moose, caribou, or deer for them if they are blind, 70-percent physically disabled* (defined above), or 65 years of age or older. A person may not be a proxy for more than one beneficiary at a time.
    Proxy hunting is allowed for most deer hunts, most caribou hunts, and some moose hunts, with the following restric- tions:
    Antler destruction:
    • consists of removing at least one antler from the skull plate or cutting the skull plate in half to destroy the trophy value.
    • is required for all species.
    • is required for each animal taken by the proxy hunter (both the proxy hunter’s animals and the beneficiary’s animals).
    • must occur at the kill site unless uncut ant- lers must be submitted to adf&g for mea- suring.
    • will be completed after measuring by adf&g.
    You may proxy hunt for moose:
    • in tier ii hunts
    • in bull hunts with no antler restrictions • in antlerless moose hunts
    you may not proxy hunt in these areas:
    • unit 5a, youth hunt management area from oct 15-oct 31.
    • unit 20e moose and units 20b, 20d, 20e, 20f and 25c caribou registration hunts (rm865, rc860, and rc867).
    • units 21b, 21c, 21d and 24 moose hunts if either the proxy hunter or the beneficiary holds a drawing permit for the units 21b, 21c, 21d and 24 moose hunts.
    • mulchatna herd caribou hunts before
    nov. 1 in units 9a, 9b, 9c within the alagnak river drainage, 17b, 17c, 18, 19a, and 19b.
    Special restriction in unit 13:
    • you may not be a proxy hunter more than once per season per species.
    Both beneficiary and proxy must have obtained licenses, regardless of age, and any necessary harvest tickets and/or per- mits, before applying for a proxy hunting authorization at any adf&g office or other issuing location.
    In addition, a written statement signed by an alaska-licensed medical doctor stating the percentage of the physi- cal disability is required if the ben- eficiary only qualifies due to physical disability. Either party may obtain the proxy hunting authorization form to be completed and signed by both parties.
    Once validated, this authorization will allow the proxy to hunt for the ben- eficiary until the end of the regulatory year. As a proxy, you may hunt for the beneficiary and yourself at the same time, as long as the appropriate li- censes, harvest tickets and/or permits for both hunters are in your possession. The beneficiary may not hunt while the proxy is hunting for them.
    The beneficiary is responsible for all harvest and permit reporting, wheth- er or not the proxy is successful. The proxy is responsible for providing the beneficiary with the information neces- sary for the beneficiary to properly report. The proxy hunting authorization may not be used in federal subsistence regis- tration hunts.
    Complete details of proxy hunting are available at adf&g offices. See the top of page 4 for adf&g area office phone numbers.
    Other disability provisions
    those who are at least 70-percent physically disabled qualify for the spe- cial provisions outlined below:
    A person with physical disabilities may take big game from a boat in units 1-5, and may take black bear from a boat in unit 6d, if they obtain a disability permit. A disabled hunter permit holder may only shoot from a boat when the motor is turned completely off and when progress from the motor has ceased. Applications are available at the adf&g office nearest the hunt area.
    A person with physical disabilities may shoot game from a motorized vehicle in portions of units 7 and 15 within the kenai national wildlife refuge. This person must require a wheelchair for mobility, obtain a permit from adf&g and be in compliance with kenai national wildlife refuge regu- lations. Adf&g may require that the permit holder be accompanied by an- other hunter with a valid hunting li- cense capable of assisting with the retrieval of game taken by the permit holder. For more information on acquiring a permit to hunt within the kenai national wild- life refuge, contact the adf&g office in soldotna at (907) 262-9368.
    For further information on disability provisions, contact adf&g by phone at (907) 465-4148 or by email at dfg. dwc.permits@alaska.gov
    to assure the efficient and timely completion of your proxy paperwork, please verify that your doctor’s letter or paperwork from the government clearly states 70% or greater physical disability. See definition at top of page.
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    Member Spookum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain View Post
    Among sport hunters world wide, it is common to leave some or even all of the meat to locals while the sport hunters takes the trophy back home. I think that's a good thing for horn/hide hunters to do. Africans like it, but Alaskans tend to be more varied. The folks who get the meat are happy to get it, but others will bad mouth the sport hunters as slobs who kill for trophies, even though their neighbors benefit.

    And if a sport hunter harvesting a trophy on a draw hunt wants to donate the meat, I think that is great as well.

    But applying for draw hunts with no intention to hunt, and to have a proxy hunter do so for them, might be an abuse of the purpose of draw hunts, especially when one can do so legitimately under general, registration, and subsistence hunts.
    Hmmmm.... From my limited experience/understanding isn't the unit 13 caribou hunt set aside as draw/subsistence for Alaska residents???

    Isn't the purpose of the management of this hunt used for Alaskans?

    When you (and I) get too old to hunt (or too decrepit) is it wrong to plan a proxy hunt? As Alaskans, don't all people.... Especially old and possibly disabled have an equil right to the resources?

    I'll put it to you another way. God forbid I become a paraplegic tomorrow or you do, but would you put in for unit 13 knowing there is a 60% success rate for bagging a bou? Wouldn't you want to continue to eat wild game meat? I would. I would just hope someone would make time to fill my proxy tag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    I don't believe that is in the regs any more. That was a requirement in the past when it was under the tier II system just because of this kind of abuse. People were seeking out elderly people who could score more points and get the permits even if they had no intention of hunting. They made it so that a person would have to have qualified to get a permit themselves to be elegible to proxy for someone else.
    "Both beneficiary and proxy must have obtained licenses, regardless of age, and any necessary harvest tickets and/or per- mits, before applying for a Proxy Hunting Authorization at any ADF&G office or other issuing location."

    Taken from the 2012-13 regs.

  20. #20
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookum View Post

    I'll put it to you another way. God forbid I become a paraplegic tomorrow or you do, but would you put in for unit 13 knowing there is a 60% success rate for bagging a bou? Wouldn't you want to continue to eat wild game meat? I would. I would just hope someone would make time to fill my proxy tag.
    Yep, me too. When I am unable to hunt, I most certainly will still apply for hunts such as this one in order to attain my supply of wild meat. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. And as someone else pointed out above, it's entirely possible that someone who drew the tag might get injured in the intervening time and be unable to hunt on their own. Sure, the wording in the OP might leave room for improvement, but I think it's a great offer for the right person.

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